Split: Either all the time or at playoffs

[Baldcoach]

the way it is going the tssaa will fold and you will not have to worry about a

split. privates will be the only teams left. publics will fall by the side of the road.

it will be open season on all public campuses for the best players.

 

 

Huh?

[VolunteerGeneral]

Thanks for that list Indian. I know that wouldn`t be the exact way it would be done, but that gives an idea. I noticed that Warren County was in the 3rd group, that`s would be the beauty of the whole thing. A team like Warren County could start the season out with a glimmer of hope for some type of post season success. I have no idea what the deal is at Warren County, but it is clear that they have not had much success in the past years, but yet they are forced under the current system to play in 5A based on how many kids go to the school.

 

There are inequities all over. Not all communities and towns have the same interest and support in football. Not all have the same talent or early developemental youth leagues. Why stick Warren County in a situation year after year when they simply are not competitive? Losing year after year certainly can`t help the enthusiasm for football in Warren County. If they were placed in a class that they were competing against other teams more in line with their competitiveness then folks there would have more reason to support them and IMO they would become a stronger program.

[Antwan]

Thanks for that list Indian. I know that wouldn`t be the exact way it would be done, but that gives an idea. I noticed that Warren County was in the 3rd group, that`s would be the beauty of the whole thing. A team like Warren County could start the season out with a glimmer of hope for some type of post season success. I have no idea what the deal is at Warren County, but it is clear that they have not had much success in the past years, but yet they are forced under the current system to play in 5A based on how many kids go to the school.

 

There are inequities all over. Not all communities and towns have the same interest and support in football. Not all have the same talent or early developemental youth leagues. Why stick Warren County in a situation year after year when they simply are not competitive? Losing year after year certainly can`t help the enthusiasm for football in Warren County. If they were placed in a class that they were competing against other teams more in line with their competitiveness then folks there would have more reason to support them and IMO they would become a stronger program.

 

Warren County was 5-6 and made the playoffs in 5a. Everybody keeps referring to them. They had a pretty good 5a team last year.

[VolunteerGeneral]

Warren County was 5-6 and made the playoffs in 5a. Everybody keeps referring to them. They had a pretty good 5a team last year.

 

That`s true Antwan. But what has been their record in years past? On the other end of the spectrum the small rural public schools that you say can`t compete with private schools (although there are exceptions like Trousdale and TCA) wouldn`t have to worry about it anymore. They`d be playing against similar schools that have problems with numbers, money...etc.

[bigchief]

Sorry to get in on this late, but I have a question. I'm sure my good friend tnsddelveloper can answer it for me. Is the TSSAA supposed to rank every school in every sport according to this "merit system"? You can't go just by football. There are a lot of schools that don't even have football. I work at one. Also, what about the differences between boys and girls sports? Say for instance the Clarkrange girls and boys. Their girls can compete at the highest levels in the state, but their boys would get slaughtered if they used the same rating system. If you do them separately, you would have teams going in all different directions playing different teams in different locales every night. This would split your fan support and basically kill your athletic program. Am I missing something here? A merit system sounds good on paper until you realize that TSSAA championships are won in 10 different sports for girls and 10 sports for boys (technically, wrestling is co-ed in Tennessee).

 

Very few schools are good at everything. Someone's team would still not be able to compete. The travel implications of doing it separately by each individual sport would get that proposal shot down in a heartbeat. Just think the Pearl-Cohn and Maplewood softball teams could travel down to Memphis Melrose and Chattanooga Howard for district games so they could be competitive with each other. Not likely. Now if their basketball teams wanted to do it..........................

 

There will never be a time where publics and privates get along ever again. There are too many schools out there that (A.) will take their ball and go home if they don't win and (B.) Do anything and everything to make sure their team wins. It is no longer apples and oranges. It is now cheaters and crybabies. The truth hurts.

[tnsddeveloper]

Sorry to get in on this late, but I have a question. I'm sure my good friend tnsddelveloper can answer it for me. Is the TSSAA supposed to rank every school in every sport according to this "merit system"? You can't go just by football. There are a lot of schools that don't even have football. I work at one. Also, what about the differences between boys and girls sports? Say for instance the Clarkrange girls and boys. Their girls can compete at the highest levels in the state, but their boys would get slaughtered if they used the same rating system. If you do them separately, you would have teams going in all different directions playing different teams in different locales every night. This would split your fan support and basically kill your athletic program. Am I missing something here? A merit system sounds good on paper until you realize that TSSAA championships are won in 10 different sports for girls and 10 sports for boys (technically, wrestling is co-ed in Tennessee).

 

Very few schools are good at everything. Someone's team would still not be able to compete. The travel implications of doing it separately by each individual sport would get that proposal shot down in a heartbeat. Just think the Pearl-Cohn and Maplewood softball teams could travel down to Memphis Melrose and Chattanooga Howard for district games so they could be competitive with each other. Not likely. Now if their basketball teams wanted to do it..........................

 

There will never be a time where publics and privates get along ever again. There are too many schools out there that (A.) will take their ball and go home if they don't win and (B.) Do anything and everything to make sure their team wins. It is no longer apples and oranges. It is now cheaters and crybabies. The truth hurts.

 

Simply put, all schools in all sports they would participate in would be re-ranked. Every team would travel and compete separately. It doesn't kill other sports ... why this one. It also isn't a requirement in all other states either ... it doesn't kill there "winter" sports. Easy algorithms would be developed to handle those types of things and rankings. And I seriously, seriously doubt a team from Nashville or Chatt would have a district team in Memphis. That is a unlikely and a rather "sky is falling" statement that inflames the local yokels.

 

How does your wife feel about the whole private/public thing since she's at GP and recently coached there?

[Antwan]

That`s true Antwan. But what has been their record in years past? On the other end of the spectrum the small rural public schools that you say can`t compete with private schools (although there are exceptions like Trousdale and TCA) wouldn`t have to worry about it anymore. They`d be playing against similar schools that have problems with numbers, money...etc.

 

Actually...they've had some great teams in the past. I didn't say small rural schools can't compete with private schools. I did say that small rural schools have a disadvantage against small private schools. Some can definitely compete...but as a whole...there is a pretty big gap. If there was a total split...that problem would be solved too.

Edited July 26, 2006 by Antwan

[bigchief]

Simply put, all schools in all sports they would participate in would be re-ranked. Every team would travel and compete separately. It doesn't kill other sports ... why this one. It also isn't a requirement in all other states either ... it doesn't kill there "winter" sports. Easy algorithms would be developed to handle those types of things and rankings. And I seriously, seriously doubt a team from Nashville or Chatt would have a district team in Memphis. That is a unlikely and a rather "sky is falling" statement that inflames the local yokels.

 

How does your wife feel about the whole private/public thing since she's at GP and recently coached there?

Actually, it would do a lot of damage to basketball in a couple of ways.

#1. travel costs. Instead of paying for a bus for both teams to ride( gas, driver etc.), you will double that since they will more than likely be going in different directions.

#2. You will also be cutting your fan base in half. Surely, you have been to a MJ basketball game where half the crowd left after the girls game. Shelbyville was horrible about this up to the last two years. If you have fans that go on the road with one team, they will not be buying a ticket at a home game that same night for the other team. Less revenue.

#3 You are going to immediately double the number of referees needed for high school games. Since we already have such a tremendously deep pool of officiating talent to choose from that shouldn't be a problem (I know you recognize my sarcasm). Do you really think you could get enough three-man crews for all the games? Don't even think about all the middle school, freshman and JV games that have to be scheduled as well. I guess parents could volunteer to referee those.

#4. You will also double the cost of referees for your school since the boys and girls will be separate. Bad business decision.

 

The scenario I gave you for softball put similar schools with similar ability levels against each other. Isn't that what a "merit system" is supposed to do? How many schools in this mid-state area do you think would be simillar to them in softball. Be honest.

 

As far as my wife, she is from the country and is naive to all the things that go on these days. Heck, she wanted me to stop at a market across from University Court (across from Cameron Middle on Murfreesboro Road) last night when we left the Sounds game because she was thirsty. She doesn't understand why I always lock the doors or why she should also. She also does an excellent job with the volleyball players that show up to school there.

 

As for me, I have watched our two best middle school basketball players for the last two years leave for free tuition at Ensworth. They have not, however, been lining up to sign our top academic students to a full ride. Go figure.

 

As always, the truth hurts.

[tnsddeveloper]

Actually, it would do a lot of damage to basketball in a couple of ways.

#1. travel costs. Instead of paying for a bus for both teams to ride( gas, driver etc.), you will double that since they will more than likely be going in different directions.

#2. You will also be cutting your fan base in half. Surely, you have been to a MJ basketball game where half the crowd left after the girls game. Shelbyville was horrible about this up to the last two years. If you have fans that go on the road with one team, they will not be buying a ticket at a home game that same night for the other team. Less revenue.

#3 You are going to immediately double the number of referees needed for high school games. Since we already have such a tremendously deep pool of officiating talent to choose from that shouldn't be a problem (I know you recognize my sarcasm). Do you really think you could get enough three-man crews for all the games? Don't even think about all the middle school, freshman and JV games that have to be scheduled as well. I guess parents could volunteer to referee those.

#4. You will also double the cost of referees for your school since the boys and girls will be separate. Bad business decision.

 

The scenario I gave you for softball put similar schools with similar ability levels against each other. Isn't that what a "merit system" is supposed to do? How many schools in this mid-state area do you think would be simillar to them in softball. Be honest.

 

As far as my wife, she is from the country and is naive to all the things that go on these days. Heck, she wanted me to stop at a market across from University Court (across from Cameron Middle on Murfreesboro Road) last night when we left the Sounds game because she was thirsty. She doesn't understand why I always lock the doors or why she should also. She also does an excellent job with the volleyball players that show up to school there.

 

As for me, I have watched our two best middle school basketball players for the last two years leave for free tuition at Ensworth. They have not, however, been lining up to sign our top academic students to a full ride. Go figure.

 

As always, the truth hurts.

Not hurt feelings here. Your OPINIONS are duly noted (and discarded).

[cbg]

Why do you have to use the merit system for all sports? Could we not give it a try with football first and see how everyone likes it before we go overboard. I know that some people don't want to give the merit system a try because the just don't like change or they would have to play a more difficult schedule.

[lazarus]

"If you have fans that go on the road with one team, they will not be buying a ticket at a home game that same night for the other team. Less revenue."

 

ummm, if you dont schedule your home games together, the scheduler should be shot.

 

 

"our two best middle school basketball players for the last two years leave for free tuition at Ensworth. They have not, however, been lining up to sign our top academic students to a full ride."

 

my athlete and my non-athlete got the same offer for D-II HS, substantial scholarship but not a free ride. both were academically strong.

cant speak for ensworth, our school was not/is not an athletic power school, but at least at some privates athletics doesnt get you any favors.

 

fwiw the free ride for the athlete vs only a substantial scholarship for mere academics came in college.

[big red big blue]

just so we're clear, the dII schools cannot "offer" financial aid. Finacial aid is adminstered soley on the basis of the family's ability to pay the tuition. A third party evalutes the family's ability to pay without any knowledge of the student--i.e., race, academic background, athletic background, etc. So dII schools can't "offer" full scholarships to anyone. They can admit someone to the school and then send them through the financial aid award process, but that is about it.

 

what has always bothered me about separating privates from publics on the basis of whether or not they give financial aid is the idea that there is some "characteristic" possessed by poor people that make them unsuitable for public/private play. In other words, the creation of dII has made it so that public schools will play against privates, provided 100% of the kids on the team are wealthy enough to pay the tuition.

 

a strange fact I learned while looking through rollredroll's database--Riverdale, regarded by most as the most vocal critic of financial aid-giving schools after losing to BA in the '95 Clinic Bowl, beat McCallie in the '93 play-offs, and destroyed Baylor in the '94 play-offs. The two teams they beat easily give far more financial aid than BA did/does, so it is curious why they honed in on financial aid as the "unfair advantage" they were so opposed to playing against in 95-96.