Public's should not play private schools

[BackinTN]

This is from the tssaa handbook.

 

"Territory – For a public school, the “territory” of the school is the geographic boundaries and bus routes of the area served by that school as established by the local board of education. For a system-wide public school, the “territory” of the school is the geographic boundaries of the school system. For a non-public school, the “territory” of the school is the area within a twenty (20) mile radius from the school."

 

A transfer from one school to another must have a bona fide change of residence by the parents from one "territory" to another. As stated above...the territories are defined.

 

 

Have you ever seen the 20 mile radius enforced? I know some schools would be in deep trouble if it were. Someone might want to talk to the soccer player they referred to in Rutherford that goes to BA and have them check the milage, lol. I know of several Nashville kids that play a particular sport at JPII that live way beyond 20 miles away.

 

I agreed with you in that the local school board sets the boundary. I just disagreed in that TSSAA has nothing to do with them. They don't set the zones, but athletically, they enforce them.

 

Seriously, have you ever heard of the 20 mile rule being enforced?

[Antwan]

Have you ever seen the 20 mile radius enforced? I know some schools would be in deep trouble if it were. Someone might want to talk to the soccer player they referred to in Rutherford that goes to BA and have them check the milage, lol. I know of several Nashville kids that play a particular sport at JPII that live way beyond 20 miles away.

 

I agreed with you in that the local school board sets the boundary. I just disagreed in that TSSAA has nothing to do with them. They don't set the zones, but athletically, they enforce them.

 

Seriously, have you ever heard of the 20 mile rule being enforced?

 

 

You are confusing two different things. The territory rule has to do with transfers. You don't have to live within 20 miles of the school to go there.

 

It's the same with public schools. Some schools have zones...some do not. Some schools' zones are defined by the county. Some accept out of county kids.

Some charge tuition for out of zone kids...some do not.

 

If you start and stay at one school...the tssaa could care less where you live.

[robjim]

Holy cow, I feel bad (for you). Please stop posting to me. You have understood nothing. I feel that it is intentional so you can argue for the sake of argument. I will not respond to your postings to me any more.

 

 

I appreiate your concern for my well being. With respect, I've not argued any point that you've posted. I've asked you to respond to a question I raised on a post that you made. You have chosen to not respond. That is your choice.

[PBandJ]

Come on, PB, you're kidding, right?

 

Nope.

 

If a public has a winning tradition, some kids and families will be attracted to that school. If they are top notch academically, then the attraction is even greater. Families have moved to be able to attend schools. Schools with better coaching, better traditions, better academics, are going to attract better, period. That is the whole premise of privates (build better, offer better, etc).

 

Bingo. So let me ask this question - why is it kosher for Alcoa and Maryville to operate as models of excellence, but not privates?

 

The difference is that privates can do it without the restraint of zones, and they don't require families to move to get them in their school.

 

Once again, we need to consider Alcoa and Maryville. Both have kids attending and partcipating in athletics that live outside of their city school zones. Many live in the county and officially zoned to attend Heritage or William Blount. Many actually live outside of Blount County. That is at least 2 zones away. Once again, why is it exceptable for Alcoa and Maryville but not for privates?

 

If there are limited privates to make that attraction to the public students, the the publics athletic pool stays intact, and the athletes are not spread out over multiple privates and multiple publics. So you end up with very strong publics that are strong year in and year out. If the privates had more to offer in that area, or perhaps were more willing to work around the rules as some have been accused of in other areas, then they would improve, and the eventual loss of talent from the publics would reflect in the public programs success.

 

Your statement is statistically proven to be wrong. Take Oak Ridge's win-loss record over the last 10 years as a baseline control (this is an overstated control as it is not a school that hovers around the statistical mean). When comparing both Alcoa and Maryville's win-loss record against the controls (Oak Ridge), the difference between the test groups (Alcoa and Maryville) are statistically significant (different) from the control (Oak Ridge). That means that without a shadow of a doubt - literally - there is a significant difference. According to many public school supporters, there shouldn't be a significant difference between any privates and publics. But for some reason, these two specific instances are blatant and overlooked.

 

Taking it a step further, lets consider the shear number of public school systems throughout the great state of TN. I'll even narrow the pool a little - consider that there are 95 counties in TN and we remove 7 for Davidson and the immediate surrounding counties to get 88. Are you telling me that there shouldn't be several other schools that match this type of dominance at some point during their existence?

 

Also understand my perspective - I attended both publics and privates in my life - actually private, public, private, public, private during the entire span of my academic career. I am an alum of a private. My kids all attend publics right now.

[jvaughan]

J, so there are instances, where public students move, transfer, get assigned from one zone/county to another. Kinda sounds like being a little pregnant.

 

J, I never mentioned anything about a public having to work harder. I said the privates are going to have to work harder.

 

I seem to notice a thread throughout this thread.

 

Again, kinda sounds like being almost (another keyword)a little pregnant.

 

 

Yes there are instances of a student going to a public school that he'she is not zoned to. If you want to say the kinda pregnant thing fine. But if I had to guess the ratio of it happening in a public school compared to it happening in a private school, I would say it is 10/1 or higher. And the sole reasoning is that the only real rule keeping a kid from attending a private school is money. And there are many rules that a kid must fall under to attend a public school out of his zone.

 

So maybe schools like CPA, BGA, and BA aren't limited by zones, but they are limited by the fact that the area in which they are located offers an educational product that is comparable in quality and completely free of charge. So they can't just "go out and get whoever they want." They can accept whoever wants to come them, regardless of zone, provided they can pay the tuition and do the work, and accept the religious mission (in the case of BA and CPA).

 

 

Great quote here that makes my point for me, "So they can't just go out and get whoever they want. They can accept whoever wants to come them, regardless of zone." That is something that a public can not do "accept whoever wants to come to them". If Student A is zoned to Public School A and wants to attend wants to attend Public School B, unless he falls under one of many rules he can not. Now if student A wants to attend Private school C that is three counites away, they only thing that he has to do is come up with tuition to attend.

 

And like backintn has said, when has a 20 mile rule been enforced. That is a load of crap if anybody thinks that rule is working.

[PBandJ]

And like backintn has said, when has a 20 mile rule been enforced. That is a load of crap if anybody thinks that rule is working.

 

I think you and BackinTN are misunderstanding the 20 mile radius rule. The 20 mile radius rule is only in affect for students that transfer to a private. It does not mean all kids at the private and participate in sports must live within 20 miles of the school. As for enforcement, I know that you can ask roughly 10 kids over the last 4 or so years at Friendship that have sat out an entire year of TSSAA participation.

[Antwan]

Yes there are instances of a student going to a public school that he'she is not zoned to. If you want to say the kinda pregnant thing fine. But if I had to guess the ratio of it happening in a public school compared to it happening in a private school, I would say it is 10/1 or higher. And the sole reasoning is that the only real rule keeping a kid from attending a private school is money. And there are many rules that a kid must fall under to attend a public school out of his zone.

Great quote here that makes my point for me, "So they can't just go out and get whoever they want. They can accept whoever wants to come them, regardless of zone." That is something that a public can not do "accept whoever wants to come to them". If Student A is zoned to Public School A and wants to attend wants to attend Public School B, unless he falls under one of many rules he can not. Now if student A wants to attend Private school C that is three counites away, they only thing that he has to do is come up with tuition to attend.

 

And like backintn has said, when has a 20 mile rule been enforced. That is a load of crap if anybody thinks that rule is working.

 

 

Read my previous post. You too are confusing two different things.

[jvaughan]

PB&J, exactly how are these students allowed to attend a school inside of Blount Co, when they do not even live in Blount Co? I am the son of principal and the first thing a student must do when coming into the school is fill out registration forms that include veryfing the address. Are they giving a false address? Sounds like something the school system itself needs to look into if they are taking students that do not even live in thier county.

[BackinTN]

Nope.

Bingo. So let me ask this question - why is it kosher for Alcoa and Maryville to operate as models of excellence, but not privates?

Once again, we need to consider Alcoa and Maryville. Both have kids attending and partcipating in athletics that live outside of their city school zones. Many live in the county and officially zoned to attend Heritage or William Blount. Many actually live outside of Blount County. That is at least 2 zones away. Once again, why is it exceptable for Alcoa and Maryville but not for privates?

Your statement is statistically proven to be wrong. Take Oak Ridge's win-loss record over the last 10 years as a baseline control (this is an overstated control as it is not a school that hovers around the statistical mean). When comparing both Alcoa and Maryville's win-loss record against the controls (Oak Ridge), the difference between the test groups (Alcoa and Maryville) are statistically significant (different) from the control (Oak Ridge). That means that without a shadow of a doubt - literally - there is a significant difference. According to many public school supporters, there shouldn't be a significant difference between any privates and publics. But for some reason, these two specific instances are blatant and overlooked.

 

Taking it a step further, lets consider the shear number of public school systems throughout the great state of TN. I'll even narrow the pool a little - consider that there are 95 counties in TN and we remove 7 for Davidson and the immediate surrounding counties to get 88. Are you telling me that there shouldn't be several other schools that match this type of dominance at some point during their existence?

 

Also understand my perspective - I attended both publics and privates in my life - actually private, public, private, public, private during the entire span of my academic career. I am an alum of a private. My kids all attend publics right now.

 

 

I have in no way taken away any privates ability to be a model of excellence. Only pointed out that because of certain things, they have an easier way of becoming taht model of excellence.

Your statistical analysis does not take into account the intangibles of athletics. Since there is no was to make accurate allowances for that, your deviation will be huge, thus your analysis will be tremendously off. What is your +/- for deviation?

If kids are coming from two counties away to alcoa or maryville, this needs to be reported. Publics and privates alilke find ways around rules. However, it is a much easier task for the privates to do so, not have the constraint of zoning.

However, we are not talking about rule breakers, we all know they exist on both sides of the debate. With the way zoning works, there is an innate advantage for privates. Do you really think that the atheletically successful privates would be as successful if they were restricted to a certain area where they can get their athletes from? Be honest.

Your academic career sounds similar to mine. I have been in both. I have worked in both. I have a very similar perspective, but a different opinion and understanding of the situation.

[Antwan]

PB&J, exactly how are these students allowed to attend a school inside of Blount Co, when they do not even live in Blount Co? I am the son of principal and the first thing a student must do when coming into the school is fill out registration forms that include veryfing the address. Are they giving a false address? Sounds like something the school system itself needs to look into if they are taking students that do not even live in thier county.

 

 

There's nothing to look into. That is thier school policy. They allow out of zone kids that pay tuition to attend there. What difference would it make if they

were in county or out of county? Alcoa and Maryville are not in the Blount County school system from my understanding.

[BackinTN]

You are confusing two different things. The territory rule has to do with transfers. You don't have to live within 20 miles of the school to go there.

 

It's the same with public schools. Some schools have zones...some do not. Some schools' zones are defined by the county. Some accept out of county kids.

Some charge tuition for out of zone kids...some do not.

 

If you start and stay at one school...the tssaa could care less where you live.

 

 

If you move and live in a different zone from where you estabilished your eligibility, the TSSAA cares very much. Its not allowed for you to continue to play in your old zone, when you live in a new one.

 

Also, you made my point exactly, there is no zone for privates, you dont have to live within any radius of a private to go there. Advantage for privates.

[jvaughan]

Read my previous post. You too are confusing two different things.

 

 

Again tell me instance, transfer or not, when the 20 mile rule has been inforced. Rarely I would say.

 

Tell me a school system that does not have zones. Very few I would say.

 

And you keep saying some publics do this but the thing is that ALL privates are allowed to take any cat and dog that walks in.