Temple

[zonepirate]

As a member in good standing of the TSSAA, a school whether public or private should expect fair and equitable treatment and that has hardly been the case. Just like the colonies in 1776, we have taxation without representation.

 

 

Actually you have representation and can participate in the process. Each private school has one vote just like the public schools. The colonies had no vote at all. Big difference. Your beef is that privates are in the minority and don't like the rules the majority have set and I can understand that.

[zonepirate]

Maybe the privates should get a multiplier for representation? /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

 

 

/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":lol:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

[Bighurt]

Actually you have representation and can participate in the process. Each private school has one vote just like the public schools. The colonies had no vote at all. Big difference. Your beef is that privates are in the minority and don't like the rules the majority have set and I can understand that.

 

Good points. I will add that district representatives should represent all the TSSAA members in their district not just the public schools.

[Indian]

OK. You have hit my buttons now.

 

This is the same public school-dominated Board of Control which created D2 because Riverdale, whose principal was on the Board of Control, got beat by BA in the 1995 5A football state championship.

 

This is the same public school-dominated Board of Control which created the multiplier rule because Collinwood lost to a private school in the state playoffs the year the principal's son was a senior.

 

This is the same public school-dominated BOC which consistently makes decisions that favor public schools to the detriment of high school sports as a whole.

 

You are correct no one forces private schools to participate in the TSSAA. However, the TSSAA is the one only sanctioning body recognized by the National Federation of State high School (NFHS) for the state of Tennessee. It is been declared by court ruling as a "state actor" and functions as a monopoly.

 

As a member in good standing of the TSSAA, a school whether public or private should expect fair and equitable treatment and that has hardly been the case. Just like the colonies in 1776, we have taxation without representation.

 

 

If they'd been out to get private schools, all would have been placed in Division II. They allowed most to stay in Division I where for the most part the results remain the same despite the multiplier.

[maj]

I understand what you are saying but the US Senate has 2 representatives elected by popular vote from each state, not one from each party or ethnic background. So if 20% of the county belongs to one independent party you think they should have 20% of the Senate seats even if they don't have a majority in any state? That's what you are suggesting. The Senate is elected by majority vote by the people in that state which is in essence what the Council has in their districts.

 

 

 

Good grief. The point you missed was this : Each state gets two senators REGARDLESS of the population of said state. This keeps Alaska ( low population ) from automatically being dominated by the likes of California ( large population )

 

Maybe this example will make it more clear. Hypothetical case here but I know of a place this actually happened. Let's say Knoxville wanted to annex Maryville and the powers to be put it to a vote. The people of Knoxville are all told by expanding to Maryville, their property taxes go down 20%. The people of Maryville are told how happy they will be as part of Knoxville, and the privilage will cost them more, but it is for their own good. After the vote, 100% of the Knoxville residents think the annex is a great idea, 100% of the Maryville folks want nothing to do with Knoxville. Resolution passes 5 to 1. I guess some could say this is democracy in action. After all everyone got a chance to vote. But I doubt the folks in M'ville are going to be real happy.

[zonepirate]

Good points. I will add that district representatives should represent all the TSSAA members in their district not just the public schools.

 

 

True to a certain degree. The representatives also have to represent the majority so when there are differing opinions the will of the majority should prevail

[zonepirate]

Good grief. The point you missed was this : Each state gets two senators REGARDLESS of the population of said state. This keeps Alaska ( low population ) from automatically being dominated by the likes of California ( large population )

 

 

No, actually I understood exactly what you were trying to say and I understand why you would want it that way. But you are taking one piece out of a complex government with a constitution, 2 houses in congress and 3 separate branches and trying to apply that part only to a small athletic organization. Almost everything in government is based on one vote and majority rules. Why is that hard to understand and accept?

 

Maybe this example will make it more clear. Hypothetical case here but I know of a place this actually happened. Let's say Knoxville wanted to annex Maryville and the powers to be put it to a vote. The people of Knoxville are all told by expanding to Maryville, their property taxes go down 20%. The people of Maryville are told how happy they will be as part of Knoxville, and the privilage will cost them more, but it is for their own good. After the vote, 100% of the Knoxville residents think the annex is a great idea, 100% of the Maryville folks want nothing to do with Knoxville. Resolution passes 5 to 1. I guess some could say this is democracy in action. After all everyone got a chance to vote. But I doubt the folks in M'ville are going to be real happy.

 

 

State law doesn't allow that so the whole state would have to vote to change the law. If a majority went along with K'ville (which would never happen because that is bad for all the towns/cities) then Maryville would have to accept it or take it to the State Supreme Court. You can't just look at little pieces.

[Baldcoach]

Woah! It seems the debate has been restarted!

 

But my point has been sidetracked. I wasn't speaking about legislative functions of the Board except as an example of bias against privates. I was talking about the punitive functions. So the various government analogies aren't really valid. What is valid is a court and jury, where one of our founding principles of justice is that we are tried by a 'jury of our peers'. Another founding principle is that 'justice is blind'.

 

My point was that this is patently NOT the case with punitive actions by the TSSAA. The organization as a whole is completely public school dominated. Thus, no private school can count on an unbiased ruling for any infractions. The very wording of the recruiting/undue influence rules is anti-private, so the rules themselves show the anti-private bias. The appeals process should NOT EVER involve ANY members of the TSSAA or the Board...it should be farmed out to a neutral third party entity that doesn't have a dog in the hunt, and it should be farmed out for both public and private appeals. Only then will we have a process that is not biased by preexisting prejudices.

 

 

p.s. If we are going to get into the whole majority vs minority debate remember that our government does NOT function that way at all. While the elected officials (majority) make laws, a completely neutral branch of government (the courts) interprets them and even gets to decide if they are valid. Thus, the US does not function in a majority vs. minority mode if the laws passed by the majority violate the rights of the minority. In that case the courts overrule the laws...there is no neutral body to act as a check or balance on the publicly dominated TSSAA. Therefore the ones who make the rules, interpret the rules, and punish the rule breakers are all the majority (publics).

The minority is, to put it bluntly, screwed. It is more like Aparthied or Nazi Germany or Russia where the majority was in control of all governmental aspects than the US.

[Bighurt]

True to a certain degree. The representatives also have to represent the majority so when there are differing opinions the will of the majority should prevail

 

I have started a debate that I don't really want. I will agree to disagree with you.

 

IMHO. Regardless of the will of the majority, I believe that the creation of D2 and the multiplier rule are unfair to a minority faction of the TSSAA (private schools) and therefore were bad decisions by the BOC.

[zonepirate]

WThe appeals process should NOT EVER involve ANY members of the TSSAA or the Board...it should be farmed out to a neutral third party entity that doesn't have a dog in the hunt, and it should be farmed out for both public and private appeals. Only then will we have a process that is not biased by preexisting prejudices.

 

 

To keep the cost down the first level of appeals could be done as they are. It is a board elected by the membership that is independent of the director. I would not have a problem with adding a second level of appeals where an independent panel reviewed the appeals. That might keep some cases out of the court system.

 

p.s. If we are going to get into the whole majority vs minority debate remember that our government does NOT function that way at all. While the elected officials (majority) make laws, a completely neutral branch of government (the courts) interprets them and even gets to decide if they are valid. Thus, the US does not function in a majority vs. minority mode if the laws passed by the majority violate the rights of the minority. In that case the courts overrule the laws...there is no neutral body to act as a check or balance on the publicly dominated TSSAA. Therefore the ones who make the rules, interpret the rules, and punish the rule breakers are all the majority (publics).

 

 

You still have the option of using the court system after the TSSAA appeals process is complete (or to challenge a rule that is passed) just like you would if it was an action by an elected official. That in itself is a check and balance. I am sure legal ramifications are considered by the TSSAA before any actions are taken especially after the Brentwood case

[zonepirate]

I have started a debate that I don't really want. I will agree to disagree with you.

 

IMHO. Regardless of the will of the majority, I believe that the creation of D2 and the multiplier rule are unfair to a minority faction of the TSSAA (private schools) and therefore were bad decisions by the BOC.

 

 

I understand. I and many others also believe that D2 and the multiplier were created because of unfair advantages that privates schools have over the publics. It is an attempt to level the playing field. It is done in one form or another in many other states so there must be some merit to it.

[Bighurt]

I understand. I and many others also believe that D2 and the multiplier were created because of unfair advantages that privates schools have over the publics. It is an attempt to level the playing field. It is done in one form or another in many other states so there must be some merit to it.

 

You call it leveling the playing field. I call it "You beat us. We don't like it. So, we are kicking you out because we have the votes."

 

Again, just my opinion.