Temple in Trouble?

[taydizzle]

I guess since this thread has stalled a little, I went back to re read some of what had been reported in the news. A couple of things jumped out at me for us to analyze and remember. So much has been discussed about the Skogen tuition mess and how Ronnie Carter/TSSAA will deal with it. I will paste two quotes below, one from Skogen and one from Carter. Skogens quote appears to indicate that he intended to pay his tuition, but never did and so it exceeded the 60 limit on late payment and thus ineligibility for his kids. He talked as if he expected to get reimbursed for the cost of the two tuitions.....but of course never did and never did pay. Carter says that he has to go by the letter of the law and how it is written.....that he has no leeway.

 

Just a second look at something that I missed and maybe someone else did as well.

 

"When Temple asked me to coach both football and basketball last year, I told them I won't do both for free," Skogen said. "I wasn't going to gouge the school for the full amount both those jobs were worth, which would have been around $15,000. So instead I told them to give me a check for what Seth and Joey's tuition would have been. But that never happened. I never got a check at all. I also never got a bill for the tuition, so I just assumed they were trading it out. In essence, they just took care of the tuition for my two boys last year."

 

 

"That's just the monetary fines for a school found guilty of eligibility violations," Carter said. "There's also probation to consider. I have no discretion, either. We go by the way the rule is written, so nobody here has a choice but to follow the letter of the law.

[zonepirate]

It could even go to court for about 20 years.

 

 

Probably not more than 10

[Green_Acres]

Just some thoughts...

 

The only person that I know of who is saying Larson was at that spring practice involved in practicing with the team is Scott Chastain. I did not hear him myself, I read about it on this board. No one has chimed in that knows any different. I know that Temple coaches and players, former and present read this board. Is it because it is true that they have not anonymously given their input? I would say one way or the other if I knew, but I do not know anything beyond the fact that Erik was present.

 

Several keep saying that the coaches have to sign a from about the handbook that makes them responsible for its contents, etc., did Caleb Markham and Dr. Pearson both sign? I imagine that Caleb has just from his time at Silverdale but why assume so much. There is enough assumption going on already. If Dr. Pearson never signed the form, then how will that affect the TSSAA's approach?

 

In the handbook, it defines what enrollment, recruitment, etc. are but it I did not remember seeing anything in there adequately addressing spring practice for football. It seems to me, in spite of the enrollment definition, it should be considered unreasonable to not allow a student who is enrolled in another school, regardless of grade, to not participate in spring football practice in the new school to which he is transferring. It is customary for a student to enroll at Temple beginning around February/March. It seems to me that there is a little bit of flexibility there when we are talking about a practice that goes on during basically the last thirty days of the year and the boys are not practicing to play in any athletic contest beyond a scrimmage. The handbook says that a student can play for an independent team after a sport's season is over with. The two CSAS boys participating in the spring practice - even if it is a violation - should fall more in the category of value less than that of playing with an independent team, especially, since the handbook is not clear on the issue spring football practice.

 

Some have made way too many assumptions about what Dan was embarassed about. He never said what embarassed him. Maybe Scott mooned Lovingood and the coach told Dan about it and said, "I was embarassed by his actions." When you operate from a bias, you automaticlly filter your information through that bias. Was Dan embarassed by Scott recruiting? Maybe so. We rarely have as big a handle on things as we think.

 

As far as the head coach thing, I think we at Temple are probably as confused about that as anyone else. The paper was a little schizo on it last year. Sometimes they were referred to as co-head coaches and sometimes Skogen and Beard, each, were referred to as the head coach. I think someone else probably came close to the truth of the matter. Skogen probably lacked the number of years as assistant to officially be the head coach, thus the co-head coach arrangement. Also, Beard is about as nice a guy as you can meet, very laid back, and is not all caught up with the "I have to be the leader syndrome" that some have. They worked extrememely well together. I even posted on that fact back in the fall. Steve is so laid back that he could have been the only head coach and you may not have known it. At least for last year, Steve and Kevin were co-head coaches and they each took their turn at the appropriate times exercising the authority of head coach. During the "gathering" times, they were both in the center together, but Kevin definitely did more of the talking. Steve is just not a spotlight on the platform kind of person. Steve had a similar arrangement with the baseball team. He was the head coach of the baseball team but he stayed in the shadows, out of the spotlight.

 

Let me just say again, Dan Wadley, Kevin Skogen, and Steve Beard the most honest coaches, rule abiding coaches you could ever meet. IF (please, notice the big "if") there were any infractions of any rules during their tenure, it was unintentional. I can assure you from what I know from being around Temple for as long as I have, that there has never been any reason to take any comment about wrongdoing seriously as it concerns these men.

 

I wonder if all the private schools who charge tuition were to have to bring their books and files to the table and lay them open before the TSSAA, how many would be guilty of unintentional book keeping mistakes and failures to show paper trails in their dealings. Some of you guys still keep talking about the tuition issue like it is a major issue. It is not. Skogen has a well established pattern of having paid for his kids tuition. The issue in the handbook is about receiving financial aid. We need to turn that horse loose in the pasture and give it some rest and quit riding it so hard. The Chastain issue of tuition is one that seems sketchy to me based on what I have read in the paper. Scott is riding that one hard, not to clear his name, but to intentionally retaliate for being fired. The administration said they fired him because of dishonesty, I am quite sure at this point that if that was the reason he was fired then there is not much reason to believe anything he has to say on anything.

 

Someone has asked about what exactly Scott lied about. Since I did not actually hear all he said on the radio it would be difficult for me to elaborate on all his comments. I do know that many students and parents - obviously the administration - believe that he is being less than honest. They should get on here and comment about those things that they know he was not being truthful about but I am guessing they will not for a many reasons. First, they may not because to do so would require them to reveal more about who they are and they value their anonymity and the ability it gives them to be candid about things. Second, they do not want to give some of you guys more fuel to add to your already growing frenzy to blame and accuse a multitude of people when a very small number are actually in question. Third, in spite of Scott's obvious attempts to hurt the school, most of the people still love Scott - in spite of himself (which should be the typical, Christian response to one who messes up) - and in no way want to add to his already growing misery by shedding light on his lies. Fourth, they are wise enough to know that the truth has a way of rising to the top just like cream in a butter churn. We, at Temple, know that there is nothing that is done in secret that will not be revealed and that God holds us to a high standard of righteousness. Whatever happens to Temple it will be because God is righteous and He, in some way, will bring glory to Himself through this.

 

Finally, (shew, right?) I, again, appreciate, the honest comments, discussion, questions, etc. The posters on this thread have done a very good job of not pulling any punches and also of trying to see beyond personal opinions. I applaud you and thank you. Zone is right about the name calling and taunting. One thing I have enjoyed about this particular thread is that it has challenged me in a lot of ways to look beyond my blind, naive acceptance of the leadership and has strengthened my resolve in other areas. I know some of you guys just like to argue, by your own admission, and I do too. Some of you guys need to try to not be so thin-skinned. You would do well to add a few smiley faces even if what you really intend is a few frowny faces. Life is too short and filled with enough stresses and difficulties to let comments on a message board to add to our stress.

 

By the way, no one has called me a stupid idiot for quite some time now. What should I make of that?

[zonepirate]

Carter has the authority to issue the decision and decide penalties. It can be appealed to the Board of Control.

 

 

Here are related parts of the bylaws

 

Section 4. The Executive Director shall initiate investigations, conduct hearings, collect information, render decisions and fix penalties based on the information provided to the staff, and in accordance with the rules and regulations of the TSSAA. Such decisions shall be subject to review by the Board of Control on appeal by the principal of the member school involved.

 

Hearings

Section 1. Any school charged with violating TSSAA regulations shall be notified of such charges by the Executive Director. If a hearing is desired by the school involved, the Executive Director must be notified immediately in writing. Provisions will then be made for such hearing, and the school so notified.

Section 2. Hearings shall be conducted by the Executive Director in the presence of two or more members of the Board of Control who represent the Grand Division of the state in which the school is located, and who shall act in an advisory capacity. After testimony has been heard, the Executive Director shall meet in executive session with the members of the Board of Control who are present at the hearing. After discussing with the Board members the evidence and possible penalties, the Executive Director shall decide what penalty, if any, is to be placed against the school.

Section 3. Regardless of whether a member school has sought a hearing under Section 2, the school may appeal any decision of the Executive Director to the Board of Control. If the decision of the Executive Director is sustained, the school making the appeal shall defray the expenses for the meeting of the Board of Control in case a special meeting of the Board is called to consider the appeal.

Section 4. No member of the Board of Control shall serve on the Board while a case involving the school which he/she represents is being heard.

[The Drunken Sailor]

Someone has asked about what exactly Scott lied about. Since I did not actually hear all he said on the radio it would be difficult for me to elaborate on all his comments.

 

 

Ok, so you called the man a liar but yet you can't tell us what he lied about?

[IOWNYOU149]

If you can name one kid (who participated athletically) and has had some sort of impact (even miniscule) on a season-- who would not have gone to temple b/c of rules...or who illegally came to temple...I will give you 100 dollars....

 

The kids at temple- beat the kids from every other school- they dominated...that is why people are mad....

Larson would have still gone to temple- he just wouldn't have been aloud to participate in the spring...that would have changed nothing... the skogens, wadleys, mouws, were all deep temple people because of family... and you cannot name one kid who illegally participated in a season at temple....

 

Larson is as close as you can get and that was just sheer ignorance that allowed him to play in the spring...but he was enrolled in temple and had already paid his fines....he was coming to temple....no one else was illegally obtained....every kid that was there was there...and beat whatever school you are from in basketball (probably always) and football last year....this makes people mad...very mad apparently... and very bitter as well...so everyone just vent and keep venting b/c all you have are infractions of ignorance that have no affect on everything that temple has accomplished...

[zonepirate]

Several keep saying that the coaches have to sign a from about the handbook that makes them responsible for its contents, etc., did Caleb Markham and Dr. Pearson both sign? I imagine that Caleb has just from his time at Silverdale but why assume so much. There is enough assumption going on already. If Dr. Pearson never signed the form, then how will that affect the TSSAA's approach?

 

 

Only coaches have to take the training course. It may be time to at least require the AD to do so

 

F. All non-faculty assistant coaches must complete the ASEP Coaches Education Program in a TSSAA-approved course within two years of his/her employment and must complete the TSSAA Online Coaches Training Session within the first year of his/her employment.

 

G. All non-faculty coaches and all first-year teachers who are coaching are required to complete the TSSAA Online Coaches Training Session during their first year of employment. Failure to attend will result in a fine of $50.00 and the coach must complete the TSSAA Online Coaches Training Session immediately or the school will face further disciplinary action.

[Green_Acres]

One would think all the private schools would have been keeping a close ete on the BA case. I doubt many private school coaches were blind to the rules. Ithought Temple was cheating last season , I told them so and they all screamed ,prove it. Itold them ,Ididn't work for the TSSAA and I wasn't Perry Mason. Looks like someone called their bluff. When a team picks up a quality QB out of nowhere to go with the Coaches son who just happened to be an all state receiver,thing look funny.

 

 

 

Pujo, I think that you have only recently started posting on this thread but someone, maybe me, has already posted many times about the Erik Larson situation. From what I remember, based on cumulative threads in addition to this one, Erik was very unhappy with the situation under Lovingood (apparently, the guy was a difficult coach to play for), and decided he wanted to come to Temple. In no way did Erik come out of no where! His mom and dad both attended Temple at some level, either the academy or the university. At least one of them graduated from one or both institutions. Erik attended the basketball camps at Temple for several years. Erik has friend at Temple due to his involvement in the basketball camps. He and his family would have been well aware of the need for a quarterback. He did seem to show up out of nowhere since he came from outside our area but he and his family are and have been part of the Temple family for some time now. I am not screaming but I would still say to you - for the first time - that if you think Temple cheated in regards to Larson coming to play football, "prove it. "

[zonepirate]

If you can name one kid (who participated athletically) and has had some sort of impact (even miniscule) on a season-- who would not have gone to temple b/c of rules...or who illegally came to temple...I will give you 100 dollars....

 

The kids at temple- beat the kids from every other school- they dominated...that is why people are mad....

Larson would have still gone to temple- he just wouldn't have been aloud to participate in the spring...that would have changed nothing... the skogens, wadleys, mouws, were all deep temple people because of family... and you cannot name one kid who illegally participated in a season at temple....

 

Larson is as close as you can get and that was just sheer ignorance that allowed him to play in the spring...but he was enrolled in temple and had already paid his fines....he was coming to temple....no one else was illegally obtained....every kid that was there was there...and beat whatever school you are from in basketball (probably always) and football last year....this makes people mad...very mad apparently... and very bitter as well...so everyone just vent and keep venting b/c all you have are infractions of ignorance that have no affect on everything that temple has accomplished...

 

 

You just named him. If Larson participated in the spring (which you should know) then he would have been ineligible for the 2006 season. You need my address for the $100

[Green_Acres]

Ok, so you called the man a liar but yet you can't tell us what he lied about?

 

 

 

The paper quoted the reason for firing Chastain was "dishonesty." Wouldn't you say the administration said the man was a liar?

[GreenMan]

The paper quoted the reason for firing Chastain was "dishonesty." Wouldn't you say the administration said the man was a liar?

 

 

I gotta say, I love the disclaimer you have as your signature. You still can't plead ignorance though.

[Nickabrick]

You just named him. If Larson participated in the spring (which you should know) then he would have been ineligible for the 2006 season. You need my address for the $100

 

HAHAHA good work Zone.