Criteria used for classification

[WarriorFan]

Because of the size of our state, I am for putting everyone back together and playing 4-5 classifications. If this does not work, I believe a total split would be great. Either you are public or private. You can play each other in the school year, but not in playoffs.

[redandblack63]

Soloman you are so good at research. If you would take the time you would find out that in the past I have been very outspoken about the open zone as well as the tuition situation. So this has been a bandwagon I have been on for along time. An unlimited school zone gives those schools a competitive advantage over closed zone schools.

 

Certain open zoned public/semi private schools charge tuition which makes them much like a D II school in they charge to go to that school.

 

So solomon I'll bite. Should Semi Private Schools/Publics that charge tuition and open zone schools apply the multiplier of 1.8 for classification? Should there be a D III for these schools?

 

Do these schools have any advantage? Even one player can make a difference.

[Solomon]

Soloman you are so good at research. If you would take the time you would find out that in the past I have been very outspoken about the open zone as well as the tuition situation. So this has been a bandwagon I have been on for along time. An unlimited school zone gives those schools a competitive advantage over closed zone schools.

 

Certain open zoned public/semi private schools charge tuition which makes them much like a D II school in they charge to go to that school.

 

So solomon I'll bite. Should Semi Private Schools/Publics that charge tuition and open zone schools apply the multiplier of 1.8 for classification? Should there be a D III for these schools?

 

Do these schools have any advantage? Even one player can make a difference.

 

 

In a word - no.

 

I personally think D1, D2, multipliers, and everything else involved with making everyone equal is a joke. I think most "advantages" teams have that are private or fit into whatever box you want them to are just excuses.

 

My perfect scnerio would be a quasi-merit based classification system that allows teams to play whoever they want in the regular season and then seeding/classification comes into play in the playoffs. I've typed it out quite a few times on here and don't feel like it again.

 

Since that is not going to happen in my lifetime, I wish they would put everyone back into one division, drop the multipliers, and go to 4 classes accross the board.

[Red Rebels]

What does this have to do with the topic. Lets make it simple. Should all schools private, public, semi private, etc... that charges tuition to all or part of the student body be considered D-II or apply the multiplier?

 

What I wrote absolutely does not answer the question posed on this thread and was a very weak attempt to cast aspersions toward the institution that you support in a somewhat tongue in cheek manner.

 

Chuck, Did the old Knoxville City Schools take tuition students when there was two school systems in Knox County?

 

I have never heard of semi-private. If you receive federal education funds you are a public school. If we let them go for free that would be considered financial aid and would make us D-II.

 

When I played we had three classes. I say go to four and be done with it.

[BigG]

Ironic, WVLT (television station) just had a special tonight on "illegal" (their word) students (studens who actually didn't live in the area) attending Maryville High School.

 

They said that students could live outside the zone and attend, but the number was limited, and they had to pay a "fee".

[cbg]

For the past two years I have proposed that we should place everyone back together and use four divisions for football, basketball, baseball and softball.

 

Use two divisions for the following sports: Volleyball and dual match wrestling

 

Use one division for the following sports: golf, bowling, traditional state wrestling, cross country and track & field

 

The TSSAA should add the following additional sports: LAX, Swimming and Ice Hockey

 

Class A: Small rual schools and private schools that are starting a program but they are only allowed to stay in Class A for a 4 year period.

 

All finacial aid giving schools would have to play in AAA or AAAA.

[Antwan]

In a word - no.

 

I personally think D1, D2, multipliers, and everything else involved with making everyone equal is a joke. I think most "advantages" teams have that are private or fit into whatever box you want them to are just excuses.

 

My perfect scnerio would be a quasi-merit based classification system that allows teams to play whoever they want in the regular season and then seeding/classification comes into play in the playoffs. I've typed it out quite a few times on here and don't feel like it again.

 

Since that is not going to happen in my lifetime, I wish they would put everyone back into one division, drop the multipliers, and go to 4 classes accross the board.

 

 

Why have 4 classes? If no team has any advantage over the other...then there should be only one class. Have 32 districts with 1 team to make the playoffs. After all...why shouldn't Gordonsville be in the same district with Riverdale? Heck...they might beat them once this century. Don't want to make any excuses for them.

[Baldcoach]

Why have 4 classes? If no team has any advantage over the other...then there should be only one class. Have 32 districts with 1 team to make the playoffs. After all...why shouldn't Gordonsville be in the same district with Riverdale? Heck...they might beat them once this century. Don't want to make any excuses for them.

 

 

Antwan,

 

You keep setting this strawman up then knocking it down. No one said that no team had any advantages. Someone did say that he thought they were 'crap' lol.

 

There is nothing wrong with a classification system as long as the classification method is OBJECTIVE. Classifying by population is one way to do this. Classifying by record is another. Classifying by group assignment of certain advantages when other schools not in the group have the same advantages is not objective. Classifying whether certain advantages are more or less advantageous than others is also not objective. Thus DII and the multiplier are bogus classifying schemes. They are simply prejudicial arrangements that discriminate against private schools. Let's go to a more objective and fair system...

[Antwan]

Antwan,

 

You keep setting this strawman up then knocking it down. No one said that no team had any advantages. Someone did say that he thought they were 'crap' lol.

 

There is nothing wrong with a classification system as long as the classification method is OBJECTIVE. Classifying by population is one way to do this. Classifying by record is another. Classifying by group assignment of certain advantages when other schools not in the group have the same advantages is not objective. Classifying whether certain advantages are more or less advantageous than others is also not objective. Thus DII and the multiplier are bogus classifying schemes. They are simply prejudicial arrangements that discriminate against private schools. Let's go to a more objective and fair system...

 

 

The whole classification process is grouping teams with other teams they can compete with on a fairly equal basis.

I have said...and will say again...this is an ongoing process. Do you agree that aid giving privates have an advantage over non-aid giving privates? Do you agree that larger schools have an advantage over smaller schools? Do you agree that open zone publics have an advantage over closed zone publics in schools of equal size? Are 5a schools discriminated against because they are in a different class than 4a schools?

 

Of course...all of these questions have exceptions (potentially)...but as a rule...what are your answers to these questions?

 

As for my previous post...Solomon made this statement in his first paragraph.

 

I personally think D1, D2, multipliers, and everything else involved with making everyone equal is a joke. I think most "advantages" teams have that are private or fit into whatever box you want them to are just excuses.

 

 

If he actually believes this...then why have a class system at all? It appears he thinks every school has the potential to compete equally with any other team. Don't make excuses for losing to BA or Riverdale if you are a 1a public.

That's the way I read it.

 

You say "there's nothing wrong with a classification system as long as the classification system is OBJECTIVE."

Don't you mean...there's nothing wrong with a classification system as long as it suits baldy? Putting privates in their own class is no more subjective than separating 5a schools from 1a schools.

[redandblack63]

Good exchange of thoughts and ideas by most. Some are still hung up on this being an attack on one school. Which it isn't. I certainly haven't mentioned any specific school.

 

I don't think there is a perfect system of classification. But I do think the T$$AA needs to recognize the advantages that private, semi private (public schools that charge tuition), and open zoned schools have over closed or limited zoned schools. Regardless of what they are called schools who have an unlimited zones enjoy an advantage. How much is certainly an issue for debate.

 

By the way some private schools get federal money. Also how are charter schools going to be dealt with. How about home school groups. All of these will have to be dealt with in the not so distant future. Who is to say that a group of parents get together and home school 10 boys who happen to be really good basketball players. They file a law suite about equal access and win. The T$$AA has to let them in to compete. Where will they be classified to play? Single A?

 

I realize this sounds far fetched and ridiculous to some But let me tell you 25 years ago in sounded ridiculous for a guy to move from one school to another just because they had good athletic teams. Parents, kids, are more willing than ever to pull up roots and go to a school they are not zoned for.

 

In the interest of fair play and what is best for the kids the T$$AA needs to constantly make sure the play field is level.

[Solomon]

Here are my thoughts on all of it, and probably my last post on this board for a while.

 

There are inherent limitations in every system like this. I think school size is the biggest one and I like a 4 or 5 class system to group schools with others their size. That is where I draw the line.

 

Look at this history of every action the T$$AA has taken in the last 10 years. School(s) win too much, and suddenly every rock is uncovered looking for a reason as to why and to qualify their success.

 

BA and friends were around for a long time, but it didn't matter until Rankin couldn't beat them in the Finals. Then somebody cried foul.

 

The smaller privates had been around for roughly 30 years and it was fine until they started winning too much, then somebody cried foul.

 

Now, you have a couple of open-zoned, tuition paying schools that had dominated. Nevermind they have been like this as long as I know, because they are winning too much now, everyone cries foul.

 

It's pretty much a socialist mindset IMO. No one can be too successful. If they are, look for how they have an advantage even if it may or may not be true, and make it harder on them to be successful. I'm sure most of the people who complain about a school winning too much are the same people who complain about the successful in life and probably accuse them of cheating to do that as well. Just basing that on what I have experienced, I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

 

Oh yeah - pretty soon this whole debate will start again from scratch. The criers will eventually win and they will have aceieved their goal of athletic socialism. But, the other thing I have learned is that the successful will continue to work to be successful and will find ways to be successful again no matter the cirsumstance. The others....well, they continue to complain.

[FadePattern]

Good exchange of thoughts and ideas by most. Some are still hung up on this being an attack on one school. Which it isn't. I certainly haven't mentioned any specific school.

 

I don't think there is a perfect system of classification. But I do think the T$$AA needs to recognize the advantages that private, semi private (public schools that charge tuition), and open zoned schools have over closed or limited zoned schools. Regardless of what they are called schools who have an unlimited zones enjoy an advantage. How much is certainly an issue for debate.

 

By the way some private schools get federal money. Also how are charter schools going to be dealt with. How about home school groups. All of these will have to be dealt with in the not so distant future. Who is to say that a group of parents get together and home school 10 boys who happen to be really good basketball players. They file a law suite about equal access and win. The T$$AA has to let them in to compete. Where will they be classified to play? Single A?

 

I realize this sounds far fetched and ridiculous to some But let me tell you 25 years ago in sounded ridiculous for a guy to move from one school to another just because they had good athletic teams. Parents, kids, are more willing than ever to pull up roots and go to a school they are not zoned for.

 

In the interest of fair play and what is best for the kids the T$$AA needs to constantly make sure the play field is level.

 

 

Absolutely right! /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" />