Red Cards

[BigG]

I have a question. How is the two games determined - Say a player is red carded the first five minutes of a game; Is the current game and the next game the team plays considered the two suspended games? The player has been ejected out of the game beening played - right? What if a player is suspended the last two minutes of a game - Does the game he is playing in at the present time the one of the ones of the two game suspension? In other words is the suspension for two full games or one full game and the remainder of the game being played? /dry.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

 

That's a good question, but unfortunately, I don't think it matters when you get kicked out, you still get a two game suspension after the "offending" game is finished (so, you could actually miss 3 games if you got kicked out early in the first game)

[RetiredRef]

I would not agree that a two game suspension is warrented for the following:

 

1. A deliberate hand ball to stop a goal scoring opportunity

2. A dliberate foul on a break away to stop a goal scoring opportunity.

 

In basketball or football, neither of these kinds of things draws an ejection much less a suspension. In football if a defender is beat on a pass and they intentionally tackle the receiver to prevent them from receiving a pass that would lead to a touch down, all that happens is the team receives a penalty for pass interference. The player is not ejected or punished in anyway and it is considered a smart play. In basketball if a player steals a ball and is headed to the goal for what would be the game winning layup, a defender is taught to foul them and make them earn the points at the foul line. No ejection of the player unless it is their fifth foul and no suspension from following games even if they are ejected for maxing out the foul limit. Also, a player who goal tends in basketball. Nothing happens other than the basket is allowed. The player does not sit out and no suspension is allowed.

 

A two game suspension for these things being put on an equal plane with a two game suspension for fighting or making racist remarks is absolutely ludicrous.

 

TSSAA clearly needs someone with a soccer background and a sense of the game to manage High School soccer.

 

 

I think most people are missing the point of the harsher penalty imposed for soccer versus other sports. Comparing soccer to football or basketball isn't ever going to work because soccer penalties are for violating the spirit of the game. In basketball or football everyone has shown where expected actions result in relatively minor or inconsequential penalties - and everyone is OK with that. The governing bodies of soccer decided a few years ago that violating the spirit of the game of soccer would be punished more severely than the actual rule/foul warranted. Deliberately fouling someone to prevent an obvious goal scoring opportunity is about the most severe action a player can commit. A player jumping up to grab a ball heading for the goal - automatic red card. If you look at the bans imposed by most leagues above the rec level you'll see that many red cards result in a ban of more than 1 game and that all governing bodies reserve the right to impose a greater penalty. I'm not saying TSSAA uses this reasoning or whether it's wrong or right, just that the spirit of a basketball or football foul is not equivalent to a soccer foul.

[Whitey]

I think most people are missing the point of the harsher penalty imposed for soccer versus other sports. Comparing soccer to football or basketball isn't ever going to work because soccer penalties are for violating the spirit of the game. In basketball or football everyone has shown where expected actions result in relatively minor or inconsequential penalties - and everyone is OK with that. The governing bodies of soccer decided a few years ago that violating the spirit of the game of soccer would be punished more severely than the actual rule/foul warranted. Deliberately fouling someone to prevent an obvious goal scoring opportunity is about the most severe action a player can commit. A player jumping up to grab a ball heading for the goal - automatic red card. If you look at the bans imposed by most leagues above the rec level you'll see that many red cards result in a ban of more than 1 game and that all governing bodies reserve the right to impose a greater penalty. I'm not saying TSSAA uses this reasoning or whether it's wrong or right, just that the spirit of a basketball or football foul is not equivalent to a soccer foul.

 

 

 

OK -- no disagreement. But it goes to prove a point that I have made before, namely, that you can't compare the sports in an apples to apples comparison. The reason I say this is because of all the times that I sat in TSSAA meetings and listened to lectures about how bad soccer is because of all the ejections compared to the other sports. My response has always been that if the other sports treated the infractions of the game with the same level of severity that you have in soccer that their ejection rate would go up tremendously. I just get tired of those people who do not understand the game slamming the players and coaches as being bad because of the number of ejections, etc. I will put the kids from soccer up against the kids of any other sport at any other time when someone wants to talk about behavior.

[RetiredRef]

OK -- no disagreement. But it goes to prove a point that I have made before, namely, that you can't compare the sports in an apples to apples comparison. The reason I say this is because of all the times that I sat in TSSAA meetings and listened to lectures about how bad soccer is because of all the ejections compared to the other sports. My response has always been that if the other sports treated the infractions of the game with the same level of severity that you have in soccer that their ejection rate would go up tremendously. I just get tired of those people who do not understand the game slamming the players and coaches as being bad because of the number of ejections, etc. I will put the kids from soccer up against the kids of any other sport at any other time when someone wants to talk about behavior.

 

I agree with you 100%.

[blur25]

soccerref, if your team has had 3 reds in 5 games for slips of the mouth, then I believe the players should learn to keep their mouths shut. sorry, but I don't have any sympathy for the red for someone saying anything, that comes down to discipline from the coach down. In five years, we have had a half dozen yellows for players and 1 for the coach (me), and mine was given b/c I was warned to tell a parent to be quiet and he decided not to listen to me. As far as club v. hs, I think you do have many more inexperienced players in hs soccer, but most refs can recognize this and do a good job of letting kids know to calm down when the player is beginning to get out of control. Is a two game ban stupid, yes. But getting the red for something that a coach should teach to prevent, i.e. language, tackles from behind, is even more stupid.

 

 

Would you still feel that way if your starting sweeper was out for 2 games for trying to make a play on a breakaway that got away from him? It's silly to punish high school kids so severely for infractions that many of them probably don't fully understand. College and professional players in the US knowingly and willingly commit offenses like this and are rarely ever suspended for more than a game unless it was an unusually bad incident. So are we to say that the players who are more ignorant of the rules and far less experienced than players at a higher level are to be punished more severely for the same actions? That is completely counterintuitive.

[RetiredRef]

Would you still feel that way if your starting sweeper was out for 2 games for trying to make a play on a breakaway that got away from him? It's silly to punish high school kids so severely for infractions that many of them probably don't fully understand. College and professional players in the US knowingly and willingly commit offenses like this and are rarely ever suspended for more than a game unless it was an unusually bad incident. So are we to say that the players who are more ignorant of the rules and far less experienced than players at a higher level are to be punished more severely for the same actions? That is completely counterintuitive.

 

This is where TSSAA is out of touch with FIFA and the other governing bodies.

[socceraddict]

TSSAA does seem to be a little out of touch with soccer. I would closely imitate fifa rules because they are composed of very seasoned and intelligent people that know a lot about soccer. Their rules are not just for professional levels either. A two game ban at times is a bit much. but at other times is exactly right. there should be a distinction. a hand in the box, in my opinion, is not warranted a two game suspension. dirty mouths and violent behavior, however, could very well be worthy of a two game ban. In regards to other sports, soccer is the only sport that has to fill out a report on red cards where as with basketball and football, you just sit out. I really don't think that soccer rules are equivalent to other sports.

[ETSU_BucSoccerFan]

Some publicity about the red card in the Chattanooga Times and some explanation. See the link below.

 

http://www.tfponline.com/news/2008/mar/28/seeing-red/

[BigDog7]

The CBHS goalie was red carded in the game with Knox West today. The two game suspension will be minor when compared to the mandatory meeting with Brother Chris (Principal) on Monday to discuss the incident. At CBHS, THAT is a meeting you do not want to have!!

 

In the words of that great detective Baretta, I can only say "Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time - don't do it . . ."

[NO90]

Well said! This is a personal opinion, but I think Highland Rim Referee Association has the best Referees in the State. They ref mainly in middle tn, but I am bias.

 

 

I agree and thank you very much bc i am with HRRA. /biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />

[MVM]

I agree and thank you very much bc i am with HRRA. /biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />

 

NO90 remember he said he was BIAS, and yes He's telling the truth.....He's Bias /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" />

[broomer10]

The CBHS goalie was red carded in the game with Knox West today. The two game suspension will be minor when compared to the mandatory meeting with Brother Chris (Principal) on Monday to discuss the incident. At CBHS, THAT is a meeting you do not want to have!!

 

In the words of that great detective Baretta, I can only say "Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time - don't do it . . ."

 

 

 

Why was he red carded?