Are there to many weight classes

[sx123]

Alot of freshman get their start in those 103 and 112 lb weight classes. I agree that there are forfeits at those classes, but I would say that if you made the upper classes 215 235 260 and 285 you would have just as many...either that or encourage the youth to get bigger? Seeing as obesity is becoming such a huge problem with young people, I'm not sure if that is the correct route to go or not...just an observation.

 

One solution would be to make the following weight classes:

 

105 115 125 130 135 140 145 152 165 174 184 197 215 285

 

This would pare the lower weights down to 2 from 3 (103 / 112 / 119) and allow the upper weights to transition to collegiate style weight classes. We still need to encourage young kids to get involved, which is why lower weight classes are needed.

 

NCAA is 125 / 133 / 141 / 149 / 157 / 165 / 174 / 184 / 197 / 285 and NCWA adds a 235 weight class.

 

The hardest weight class to fill in college is HWT--285, because most quality wrestlers that are that big get scholarships to play Offensive/Defensive Line in football.

 

 

You're arguement freshman get started at 103 and 112 has some flaws. Not all freshman are small. Some quality kids come in as freshman weighing 170+ and may be just as technically skilled as upper classmen, but do not find as much success b/c they are wrestling older guys. It's common since that a 14 year old will not be physically as strong as a 18 year old bc their body has not matured as much yet. It's actually not even comparable, ask any quality heavyweight what there freshman max outs were compared to there senior max outs. You will find they are not even comparable. So even if the kids are technically equal, the older kid will win 9 out of 10 times bc he is so much stronger then the young pup. And it's typical for freshman to find success at these lower weights mainly due to the fact they wrestle only kids their age or a year older. So it's really not fair for bigger kids bc if two freshman come in one weighing 112 and the other 189, both being top-notch middle school wrestlers, the 112 will win more hardware and have more success bc he doesnt have to wrestle kids 2,3,or even 4 years older then him every other match like the 189 does. does that mean the 112 is the better wrestler? no! even though everyone will say that the 112 is better.

 

also,

 

i like the 235 and 260 idea, you argue against it bc most bigger guys chose football over wrestling in college. Most kids that are 235 and 260 are considered too small to play big time college football as an offense or defensive linemen. And most are discourged from wrestling too bc they dont want to cut to 197 and/or they dont want to get up to 285 bc they think they will be too fat. If colleges would accepet these weight classes too i would love to see the addition of a 235 and 260 and drop of 103 and 112 weight class bc there are several stud high school athletes that are around 245 that do nothing in college bc of their weight, and bc the 112 high school freshman would have to work as hard as the 189 freshman to find success.

[jseneca1]

If you drop the lower weight classes you'll make wrestling just like every other sport "BIGGER IS BETTER"...

Show some love for the smaller athletes. Besides the most exciting matches are 103-----145. IMO.

 

I totally agree!! My son started wrestling while we were living in Indianapolis Indiana during his 8th grade year due to his football coach strongly recommending he wrestle because he was a smaller athlete . During the 3 years he was in that system, each weight class was at least 3 deep with kids ready to step up. They are serious about starting them young!

[tnko]

maybe dropping 103 and 112 would be a good option and add in a 235 and 260 weight class....

 

IMHO.........You must be out of your freaking mind!!!!!!! /flower.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":flower:" border="0" alt="flower.gif" />

 

Just because you couldnt put the twinkies down in school and were a fatty dont punish kids that cant help being small. /rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />

 

This is an individual sport for all. They dont need a front line to win a state title in this sport /dry.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

[pantheon]

This is a good topic. Although there are real challenges for some programs, like those located in rural communities where the student population is low, an important factor is coaching personnel. Alluded to in previous posts, the coach who has a penchant for creating excitement in the sport and nurtures a young person's natural desire for inclusion and importance is going to experience some success in this area (participants).

 

Once the student-athlete is hooked, then parents naturally fall in line. They want to help make their child's experience a positive one. Then, hopefully, a supportive community soon surrounds the program. It can become a real cycle for success. As coaches, we can improve on this personally, but also, we need to keep an eye out for such characteristics in young coaches and encourage them whenever possible.

[coachknepper]

Okay...maybe you need to read my post that you replied to again.

 

I didn't say that all freshmen wrestlers are at 103 and 112. I said "alot of freshman get their start" at the lower weight classes...which is true. If you look at those weight classes, the majority is covered by freshman and sophomores, which was my point. In order to keep YOUNGER wrestlers involved, it is important to keep those weights.

 

As for football and the heavier weights--I never said anything about "major college programs." There are football teams at every level that high school players (who also wrestle) go to play for...it's the #1 high school participation sport by far for boys. It just so happens that many wrestlers also play football.

 

As a coach in college, I can tell you for a fact that the top 2 weight classes (235 and HWT) are the hardest to fill.

[noonesfool]

We do have too many weight classes, if you don't recruit kids walking the hall, have a good feeder program and make your team a program that your wrestlers can be proud of ( you don't even necessarily have to win, but it helps). I coached wrestling 15 years as a head coach and had only 7 forfeits. 3 strategy forfeits, 2 boys getting sick on the van and not being able to access our back ups and pulling 2 boys off the mats because I didn't like their arrogant demeanor to our opponents.

 

People who whine that we have too many classes and believe that theweight classes should be dropped back to twelve classes are........ Let me refrase it. Those coaches at 12 classes would be demanding 10 classes and forfeiting 2 of those as well.

 

I would have loved the 14 weight classes that we have today. Because every weight would have been filled.

[CoachKramer]

We need to increase the availability of matches for our reserves. many refs I have seen here in TN will only ref 4 jv matches. We need more jv tournament opportunities as well. When I came to Tn I was looking for JV tournament opportunities and when I couldnt find many I had one of my own. When I was in MI my JV wrestled in 7 tournaments through out the season and almost had as many matches as the varsity. i think this keeps the kids around and has more kids coming out because they get the chance to compete. I believe if there are more opportunities for the kids to compete and you start a feeder program then the programs will grow.

[cchulk]

I hit up every kid in our hallways that weighs less than 110 and still could not get a 103 and I am a well liked coach at my school. Most teams that have a 103, he had to cut weight. I say drop 103 and add either 180 or 235.

[RMC]

I hit up every kid in our hallways that weighs less than 110 and still could not get a 103 and I am a well liked coach at my school. Most teams that have a 103, he had to cut weight. I say drop 103 and add either 180 or 235.

 

How's your feeder program? Have a middle school team? Have a youth program? That's where you start.

[ghouse]

I hit up every kid in our hallways that weighs less than 110 and still could not get a 103 and I am a well liked coach at my school. Most teams that have a 103, he had to cut weight. I say drop 103 and add either 180 or 235.

 

 

I could not disagree more.

 

If you were to look at the current CBHS roster there are 5 wrestlers that are certified at 103. 1 of those 5 would have to cut weight (and he is not the starter, wrestles JV 112 instead). The starter is right around 103 naturally and the other 3 are all under 103, two of them significantly. Add to that fact that I know of at least two potential incoming 8th graders who will be less than 103 coming in (one who may be a career 103, maybe a 112 late in career) and I do not believe that there is a need to eliminate the weight class. I am aware of several other schools with successful programs where this is the case. All it takes is a little poking around the NWCA website to see that there are a lot of schools with multiple 103's (I just checked 4 programs and 3 of them had 3 or more 103's). The common link between all of these teams is they have a strong feeder program that helps get kids involved early.

 

This definitely makes me raise the BS flag on that one!

 

Smaller kids, who would wrestle 103, often will not choose to participate in any sport if they start in high school because by this time they have struggled in other sports because they are not the biggest, strongest kids around. I would consider this to be the reason why you couldn't get any of those less than 110 pound kids to come and wrestle for you. However, get that same kid started in let's say 6th grade when they are typically less separated from many of the other kids physically and often more willing to try new things without the fear of social ridicule and you will foster the kid into knowing he can compete athletically if given a proper avenue.

 

What you would propose is the elimination of that opportunity for that athlete. Does this sound like the right solution to you? And we propose this solution because schools and coaches won't take the effort to start a feeder program and develop kids into the sport the right way? I do not like to call out individual programs on this message board but I will in this case. Look at the Greenback program. You will not find many teams with more limitations on the ability to find wrestlers than them and they still manage to have a 103 (a highly competitive one at that!). So how do you explain this fact? You won't win many football games at the high school level (and if you do you certainly won't be winning any state championships) if the majority of your team did not start playing until high school (don't have a feeder program), why would we expect wrestling to be any different?

 

My last thought is that do not look at the # of pounds between given weight classes but instead look at the % of body weight between weight classes. This will tell you that while you may want to add some weight classes or change them up top, they may not be what you would expect them to be or as numerous as you would expect them to be.

 

As others have said, grow the sport and allow opportunities for kids to participate. Do not shrink the sport and remove those opportunities. The opportunities for kids of all sizes is one of the best and most distinguishing characteristics of our great(est) sport.

[coachknepper]

We do have too many weight classes, if you don't recruit kids walking the hall, have a good feeder program and make your team a program that your wrestlers can be proud of ( you don't even necessarily have to win, but it helps). I coached wrestling 15 years as a head coach and had only 7 forfeits. 3 strategy forfeits, 2 boys getting sick on the van and not being able to access our back ups and pulling 2 boys off the mats because I didn't like their arrogant demeanor to our opponents.

 

People who whine that we have too many classes and believe that theweight classes should be dropped back to twelve classes are........ Let me refrase it. Those coaches at 12 classes would be demanding 10 classes and forfeiting 2 of those as well.

 

I would have loved the 14 weight classes that we have today. Because every weight would have been filled.

 

 

This was the exact sort of thing I was saying earlier --- see above posts. The good programs are hurt by less weight classes...and with wrestling's popularity on the rise, why hinder it by reducing opportunity?

 

I applaud you for your coaching and hope that you are still involved with a program somewhere?

[coachknepper]

Wow--I couldn't have said it any better.

 

What an accurate introspective on the sport of wrestling and coaching!

 

Hey--could you e-mail me so I could talk to you outside the forum?

 

Thanks,

 

Bryan Knepper

MTSU Wrestling Coach