Open zones, Privates, and Public Schools

[coachrus]

I appreciate your reasonable discussion, and you make good points; however, keep in mind, the smaller the school, the larger % of students have to play football or you won't field a team. For example, CPA had 12 seniors this year on the FB team out of about 45 male seniors. if CPA doesn't have a high %, they don't have enough players to play. Maplewood, on the other hand, has their pick of the best 50-60 players from over 500 male students, so naturally they have a smaller %. If they had 30%, they would have 150 players and couldn't dress them out. Smith Co. has about 340 males students and at least 80 players (about 25%) and they have at least 10 coaches. That doesn't bother me. I think it is good for the kids.

As far as the parent coaches, I do not know the financial arrangement but I'm sure they are all different, and i also know the school has to answer to the church board financially, who would stop any unjustified expenditures. If a parent is a coach, is working hard, and doing a good job, they deserve to be paid like anyone else. i know for a fact some of them coach for free. For a few years, Mark Miller of Sawyer brown coached the middle school team his son was on for free. Again, I cannot testify to perfection in intent or action, but i can state one thing for sure: the potential for problems is not exclusive to the privates.

 

 

And ironically, Mark Miller transfered his son to Davidson Academy for basketball.

[Swipes]

you're being obtuse, flowtide. the ooz policy allows them to have access to an area larger than what they are officailly zoned for, non ooz schools can only draw there athletes from where they are zoned for. greeneville can circumvent that rule. i only referenced my accolades to deflect your trite comment as to what consitutes a winner or loser, in essence i was only answering your queery. don't be upset that things weren't the way you precieved them. if you can not cognitively understand the obviousness of that advantage then you are beyond my help, no matter how intelligently i word it.

I can see it as an advantage if the kids just transfered in during high school (This doesn't happen). OOZ kids at GHS have been in the city school systems since elementary schools (City Schools do not offer sports until middle school; unlike County schools) so its not based on sports. If Greeneville closed the open enrollment policy you would see more families renting apartment or buying houses in the City limits (Property taxes are alot cheaper in the city than the county also). Rules are Rule and GHS follows them, so Greeneville doesn't circumvent rules. If people don't like the rules then go complain to the TSSAA even though I don't see them changing any of them

[rll]

you're being obtuse, flowtide. the ooz policy allows them to have access to an area larger than what they are officailly zoned for, non ooz schools can only draw there athletes from where they are zoned for. greeneville can circumvent that rule. i only referenced my accolades to deflect your trite comment as to what consitutes a winner or loser, in essence i was only answering your queery. don't be upset that things weren't the way you precieved them. if you can not cognitively understand the obviousness of that advantage then you are beyond my help, no matter how intelligently i word it.

 

You are right, the tuition system does give some schools access to a larger student base. This does not automatically mean better sports programs. All 4 high schools in Greene County are open zoned. I live in Greene County so my children can attend any of the 4 high schools "tuition free". I don't hear anyone complaining about Chuckey-Doak, North Greene, South Greene, or West Greene. This policy was introduced in this community decades ago and was most certainly not intended for atheletic reasons. Has Greeneville gained a few good players because of it over the years? yes but I believe it is less than you think.

[snoball5278]

I can see it as an advantage if the kids just transfered in during high school (This doesn't happen). OOZ kids at GHS have been in the city school systems since elementary schools (City Schools do not offer sports until middle school; unlike County schools) so its not based on sports. If Greeneville closed the open enrollment policy you would see more families renting apartment or buying houses in the City limits (Property taxes are alot cheaper in the city than the county also). Rules are Rule and GHS follows them, so Greeneville doesn't circumvent rules. If people don't like the rules then go complain to the TSSAA even though I don't see them changing any of them

 

hey swipes, good to hear from you.

 

ok, let's say bill sr. was a great highschool athlete years ago and he lives in a zoned area with a less than desirable sports program. bill jr is 6 y/o and it's apparent he's gonna a humdinger of an athlete. bill sr wants him to play at the best place he can. so what would he do? 1. if he's loaded he can pay to have the kid go to a private school with a program he desires, 2. if he lives near a school with an ooz policy and more desirable sports program, and he has a little pocket change he can choose that option. 3. if he lives in an area no where near a school with an ooz poilicy, can't afford a private school and couldn't afford ooz tuition if he wanted too, he is a word that is not allowed on these boards.

 

now, in each situation, lets see who has the advantage in aquiring this aspiring athlete

 

1. no one will argue the private school does, the zoned school does not. (the private school pays dearly for this advantage)

 

2. the school with the ooz policy does, the zoned school does not. fans of successful programs with this policy will deny this advantage while everyone else see's the obvious. (no penalty for having a policy that makes their zone a moot point, while the other school doesn't)

 

3. this is the only situation where the school that the student is zoned for isn't at a disadvantage.

 

let the white washing begin!!!

Edited December 6, 2011 by snoball5278

[barb]

if greeneville has ever played a single kid that was an ooz player then they have an advantage over everyone that hasn't. not an excuse just a fact. fwiw, flowtide, i personally have as many rings as anyone who's ever played at greeneville. and got them playing for a program that doesn't have an ooz policy.

 

and your last senetence is spot on, so quit looking for excuses, look inward and accept the fact that an ooz policy is an advantage that many others don't have.

Wow..so are you saying that any school that has ever played an ooz player has had an unfair advantage?or just tuition ooz schools? or just Greeneville? Because there are plenty of schools that play ooz players that don't fit into any of those categories.You keep saying Greeneville exploits a loophole in the policy to gain an unfair advantage but Greeneville was open-zone before there was a policy. If you want to point your self-righteous little finger at someone exploiting the loophole, maybe you should try the parents of athletes that use a policy designed to provide academic services to students outside a school zone to circumvent TSSAA policy. Or the parents who claim hardship to get their child enrolled ooz. Or a parent that rents an apartment in town to establish residency or sent their kid to live with Uncle John. But you haven't pointed to any of these instances that circumvent the rules to gain an advantage. Why not? It's been going on for years. Kids from other zones, counties,even states finding ways to join winning programs. Great programs attract talent from all over...

[barb]

hey swipes, good to hear from you.

 

ok, let's say bill sr. was a great highschool athlete years ago and he lives in a zoned area with a less than desirable sports program. bill jr is 6 y/o and it's apparent he's gonna a humdinger of an athlete. bill sr wants him to play at the best place he can. so what would he do? 1. if he's loaded he can pay to have the kid go to a private school with a program he desires, 2. if he lives near a school with an ooz policy and more desirable sports program, and he has a little pocket change he can choose that option. 3. if he lives in an area no where near a school with an ooz poilicy, can't afford a private school and couldn't afford ooz tuition if he wanted too, he is a word that is not allowed on these boards.

 

now, in each situation, lets see who has the advantage in aquiring this aspiring athlete

 

1. no one will argue the private school does, the zoned school does not. (the private school pays dearly for this advantage)

 

2. the school with the ooz policy does, the zoned school does not. fans of successful programs with this policy will deny this advantage while everyone else see's the obvious. (no penalty for having a policy that makes their zone a moot point, while the other school doesn't)

 

3. this is the only situation where the school that the student is zoned for isn't at a disadvantage.

 

let the white washing begin!!!

unless of course the school Bill jr is zoned for is on the NCLB failing list...then Bill Sr can send his athletic little tyke to another school at taxpayer expense.

[snoball5278]

Wow..so are you saying that any school that has ever played an ooz player has had an unfair advantage?or just tuition ooz schools? or just Greeneville? Because there are plenty of schools that play ooz players that don't fit into any of those categories.You keep saying Greeneville exploits a loophole in the policy to gain an unfair advantage but Greeneville was open-zone before there was a policy. If you want to point your self-righteous little finger at someone exploiting the loophole, maybe you should try the parents of athletes that use a policy designed to provide academic services to students outside a school zone to circumvent TSSAA policy. Or the parents who claim hardship to get their child enrolled ooz. Or a parent that rents an apartment in town to establish residency or sent their kid to live with Uncle John. But you haven't pointed to any of these instances that circumvent the rules to gain an advantage. Why not? It's been going on for years. Kids from other zones, counties,even states finding ways to join winning programs. Great programs attract talent from all over...

 

i've been polite in not pointing my finger at you, because it's not individual people i'm attacking, it's policy. you're the one taking it personally. it aint personal, babs, we are all friends here.

 

they are all guilty. and you are still using the "the everybody does it" excuse, like a 4th garder.

[snoball5278]

unless of course the school Bill jr is zoned for is on the NCLB failing list...then Bill Sr can send his athletic little tyke to another school at taxpayer expense.

 

babs, your postings epitomize todays modernsociety, "well, what i'm doing is just a lil unfair, not real unfair like... (fill in the blank)."

[Swipes]

hey swipes, good to hear from you.

 

ok, let's say bill sr. was a great highschool athlete years ago and he lives in a zoned area with a less than desirable sports program. bill jr is 6 y/o and it's apparent he's gonna a humdinger of an athlete. bill sr wants him to play at the best place he can. so what would he do? 1. if he's loaded he can pay to have the kid go to a private school with a program he desires, 2. if he lives near a school with an ooz policy and more desirable sports program, and he has a little pocket change he can choose that option. 3. if he lives in an area no where near a school with an ooz poilicy, can't afford a private school and couldn't afford ooz tuition if he wanted too, he is a word that is not allowed on these boards.

 

now, in each situation, lets see who has the advantage in aquiring this aspiring athlete

 

1. no one will argue the private school does, the zoned school does not. (the private school pays dearly for this advantage)

 

2. the school with the ooz policy does, the zoned school does not. fans of successful programs with this policy will deny this advantage while everyone else see's the obvious. (no penalty for having a policy that makes their zone a moot point, while the other school doesn't)

 

3. this is the only situation where the school that the student is zoned for isn't at a disadvantage.

 

let the white washing begin!!!

Good to hear from you too Snoball!

 

If i'm Bill Sr. I'm moving if the school has a bad sports program and are closed zoned if little Billy is my Number one priority. If he is the next coming of LT. Its hard to tell at age 6 if he is going to be that tho. I know of player that I played with at GHS that were better athletes than me in elementary school but didn't see the field at GHS and were OOZ kids like myself. I also Know of a kid that his dad played in the NFL and played for us and didn't see the field unless we where up by 50 (he was an OOZ kid too). I use to live in the city limits until I was 7 and when we moved to the County my parents were not thinking about sports at all. The Greeneville City Schools system is just better than the County and that might be harsh but you need to do whats best for the kid no matter what is my take on it

[ROLLTIDEDevil]

you're being obtuse, flowtide. the ooz policy allows them to have access to an area larger than what they are officailly zoned for, non ooz schools can only draw there athletes from where they are zoned for. greeneville can circumvent that rule. i only referenced my accolades to deflect your trite comment as to what consitutes a winner or loser, in essence i was only answering your queery. don't be upset that things weren't the way you precieved them. if you can not cognitively understand the obviousness of that advantage then you are beyond my help, no matter how intelligently i word it.

The majority of schools Greeneville competes against in 4A have larger enrollments. Greeneville might have a larger land area to access but the number of students that are going to come to Greeneville is limited. So for instance Maplewood with an enrollment of over 1000 might not have the larger zone but they do have the larger student body to pull from so any advantage that GHS would have is negated.

[snoball5278]

Good to hear from you too Snoball!

 

If i'm Bill Sr. I'm moving if the school has a bad sports program and are closed zoned if little Billy is my Number one priority. If he is the next coming of LT. Its hard to tell at age 6 if he is going to be that tho. I know of player that I played with at GHS that were better athletes than me in elementary school but didn't see the field at GHS and were OOZ kids like myself. I also Know of a kid that his dad played in the NFL and played for us and didn't see the field unless we where up by 50 (he was an OOZ kid too). I use to live in the city limits until I was 7 and when we moved to the County my parents were not thinking about sports at all. The Greeneville City Schools system is just better than the County and that might be harsh but you need to do whats best for the kid no matter what is my take on it

 

bill sr. says l.t. aint got squat on bill jr.!

 

swipes, the point i'm trying to make is that athletes are attracted to success, and no one will argue that. but some on here would sooner mail me their teeth than admit that having an ooz policy, that has the potential to attract athletes outside their zone while others can't, is an advantage. i find it mind boggling.

Edited December 7, 2011 by snoball5278

[snoball5278]

The majority of schools Greeneville competes against in 4A have larger enrollments. Greeneville might have a larger land area to access but the number of students that are going to come to Greeneville is limited. So for instance Maplewood with an enrollment of over 1000 might not have the larger zone but they do have the larger student body to pull from so any advantage that GHS would have is negated.

 

you said the majority, is it negated against the minority that have smaller or equal enrollments?