Open zones, Privates, and Public Schools

[FootballDad]

It's a complex problem.

 

D2

D1 privates

D1 publics

D1 publics with open zones...

 

I try to stay out of this arguement because the multiplier seems to make the competition about even IMO. All three of the D1 categories mentioned above have won state championships.

 

... but the discussion made me think of the following option:

 

D2 contains all private schools. Schools that offer financial assistance have a multiplier that is weighted based on the ratio of total assistance provided versus the total tuition paid to the school.

 

D1 contains all publics. Open zone publics have a multiplier that is weighted based on the ratio of tuition paying students versus total enrollement.

 

What do you think GVK? and everybody else?

Add a tax credit to all parents paying private school tuition (not all of us are rich believe it or not, at least not by American standards) then I would start thinking that doesn't sound too bad. My problem with all of this segregation is that taxes paid by private school families help fund the cost of running athletic programs at the publics including coaches salaries, equipment, transportation, playing facilities, etc... and we get no direct benefit from it yet we are still being ostracized and told to play amongst ourselves despite complying with the multiplier. I don't mean to make this thing political, but it just seems to be a witch hunt against the privates regardless if they are following the rules or not. For those that don't follow the rules they should be punished, and I believe they are, including the publics that break the rules. I was against going D2 at CAK because I didn't want all the travel and overall I still believe the best leagues are the public leagues. Anyway, I haven't really thought it through thoroughly but I trust that their is an equitable solution (I thought that was the multiplier) without having to segregate our boys into public vs. private.

[jake]

Fellers tha cure fer this problem iz simpull..... one werd "axles"....Jist do like me and momma haiv dunn....Live inn a dubble wide....(Why didjee thank thay bilt tha Claytun Mow-Bile Homes Centur Fer Tha Purformin' Arts inn Mairvul ennyhow???)... ...And ewe cain moove and hook up yore brown water two enny city's connecshuns!!....And yore kidz cain go two skool thair and play footbawl (onlee aftur eye haiv put tha stopp watch two 'em tho).....

 

And countryREB don't woiry...Yore kids cain ride inn Nellie Belle ennytime thay want....

 

 

Starz, my boy keeps gettin turned away from the upper tier programs because of his 40 time, he don't time very well if you just put him out there to run, doing that he only tops out at 5.0....but I noticed that nobody can catch him, so I have figured out that he runs a lot faster when someone is chasing him, so I got his mom after him and timed him while she was chasing him and he clocked out at a 4.55. What I am a wondering is will you allow someone to be a chasing my boy when you time him, would it still be official? Pee ess.... he can throw it 45-50 yards at 12 years old. I trust yore expert recruitin opinion.

[STARSNBARS]

Starz, my boy keeps gettin turned away from the upper tier programs because of his 40 time, he don't time very well if you just put him out there to run, doing that he only tops out at 5.0....but I noticed that nobody can catch him, so I have figured out that he runs a lot faster when someone is chasing him, so I got his mom after him and timed him while she was chasing him and he clocked out at a 4.55. What I am a wondering is will you allow someone to be a chasing my boy when you time him, would it still be official? Pee ess.... he can throw it 45-50 yards at 12 years old. I trust yore expert recruitin opinion.

Jake eye sortee no what ewe talkin' abowt...

 

momma couldn't run a 40 inn 5 minetts...Butt ewe putt a plait ov biskitts and gravy at tha finnish line and she'd give that Usain Bolt feller a good run fer hit....

 

And GQ loves a good arm...and nose how two putt it two good use....

Edited December 8, 2011 by STARSNBARS

[ColumbiaBlueNScarlet]

Add a tax credit to all parents paying private school tuition (not all of us are rich believe it or not, at least not by American standards) then I would start thinking that doesn't sound too bad. My problem with all of this segregation is that taxes paid by private school families help fund the cost of running athletic programs at the publics including coaches salaries, equipment, transportation, playing facilities, etc... and we get no direct benefit from it yet we are still being ostracized and told to play amongst ourselves despite complying with the multiplier. I don't mean to make this thing political, but it just seems to be a witch hunt against the privates regardless if they are following the rules or not. For those that don't follow the rules they should be punished, and I believe they are, including the publics that break the rules. I was against going D2 at CAK because I didn't want all the travel and overall I still believe the best leagues are the public leagues. Anyway, I haven't really thought it through thoroughly but I trust that their is an equitable solution (I thought that was the multiplier) without having to segregate our boys into public vs. private.

 

I’m not sure if Knox County schools pays for equipment and transportation for athletic events. They do pay the coaches’ salaries and maintain facilities, but public school is a public service. When a student attends a private school, that student and his family are making a choice not to use the public service of schooling. On some level, it’s the same as…

Choosing not to use a park,

Choosing not to use the transit system (if you live in the city),

Not needing the services of KFD (if you live in the city),

Etc.

 

What about families that don’t have any children? They won't receive a direct benefit from public schools.

 

The multiplier works for me. Maybe it is slightly too high… maybe not. Maybe open zones should have some sort of multiplier… maybe not. I don’t know. IMO, the multiplier seems to equate the advantages of private schools.

[snoball5278]

I live in a county close to Maryville city schools. I send my kids there[Maryville] for the athletics. I pay tuition and follow the rules. Is it fair? No. I hear the excuses like it's about the academics, or there has to be room for ooz students, bull. If your kid can play there will be room made no matter the school or system. The tssaa knows whats going on and they don't care as long as their making money. My suggestion would be no ooz kid can play sports. They want to pay to go to a school fine, but no play for pay. If you want to play then move there. Yes this would be cutting my own throat, but I'm being honest. That would fix the ooz deal. The private thing, I have no idea.

 

+1

geat post! honestly, i'd take advantage of it myself if the opportunity arose, but it still wouldn't be fair.

[FootballDad]

I’m not sure if Knox County schools pays for equipment and transportation for athletic events. They do pay the coaches’ salaries and maintain facilities, but public school is a public service. When a student attends a private school, that student and his family are making a choice not to use the public service of schooling. On some level, it’s the same as…

Choosing not to use a park,

Choosing not to use the transit system (if you live in the city),

Not needing the services of KFD (if you live in the city),

Etc.

 

What about families that don’t have any children? They won't receive a direct benefit from public schools.

 

The multiplier works for me. Maybe it is slightly too high… maybe not. Maybe open zones should have some sort of multiplier… maybe not. I don’t know. IMO, the multiplier seems to equate the advantages of private schools.

I can't debate the budgetary issues of the public school athletic departments intelligently since I am not privileged to that info, but it stands to reason that there are tax funded athletic budgets provided for each public school. Fees are paid by some players and revenues are generated at the gates, so that money could be directed towards specifics such as equipment and travel. But I don't believe equipment or transportation would be denied if the revenues from players fees or ticket sales didn't cover the expenses. And I am confident that some schools are not able to cover those expenses mentioned merely from the revenues they may generate. Nevertheless, choosing to not use a public service should not exclude you from being able to use that service. If I buy a car and choose to not use the transit system that shouldn't exclude me from deciding one day that I would prefer to ride the bus that day. I simply do not like the idea of segregating the teams based upon whether they attend a tax funded school or one that is paid for privately so long as everyone is playing by the rules. I have NO problem with the multiplier and really don't debate whether the 1.8 is too high or not. At any rate, it makes for a spirited discussion.

[ColumbiaBlueNScarlet]

I can't debate the budgetary issues of the public school athletic departments intelligently since I am not privileged to that info, but it stands to reason that there are tax funded athletic budgets provided for each public school. Fees are paid by some players and revenues are generated at the gates, so that money could be directed towards specifics such as equipment and travel. But I don't believe equipment or transportation would be denied if the revenues from players fees or ticket sales didn't cover the expenses. And I am confident that some schools are not able to cover those expenses mentioned merely from the revenues they may generate. Nevertheless, choosing to not use a public service should not exclude you from being able to use that service. If I buy a car and choose to not use the transit system that shouldn't exclude me from deciding one day that I would prefer to ride the bus that day. I simply do not like the idea of segregating the teams based upon whether they attend a tax funded school or one that is paid for privately so long as everyone is playing by the rules.I have NO problem with the multiplier and really don't debate whether the 1.8 is too high or not. At any rate, it makes for a spirited discussion.

 

Good point. I never looked at it from that perspective. TSSAA has a hard job. For the most part I think they do a pretty good job. The only TSSAA decision that I don't like is the one to make eight classifications... I think that is too many... but that's a different conversation for a different thread.

[FootballDad]

Good point. I never looked at it from that perspective. TSSAA has a hard job. For the most part I think they do a pretty good job. The only TSSAA decision that I don't like is the one to make eight classifications... I think that is too many... but that's a different conversation for a different thread.

You communicate your points very well, nice job I've enjoyed bantering with you on a variety of topics here recently. Good luck to your Roadrunners next year, they are lucky to have such a fine representative on these boards.

 

I wish you and those you love a very Merry Christmas.

[tct76]

So I guess Maryville is going to have to start playing in the college DIII playoffs?

My suggestion may not be the, be all to end all, but Maryville would probably end up with more competition if some of the better 3,4,&5A teams had to move up after a few years. Never the less, my suggestion seems to make more sense to solve the majority of the problem than a lot of the other suggestions I've seen. And, It is a lot less complicated than most. Nothing is going to completely level the playing field, but my suggestion goes a long way towards doing so.

[cbg]

If you want to fix the public/private, open zone, magnet, etc... school problem there is an easy solution that would make the TSSAA more money and create more fan support for high school athletics. Abolish the current D1/D2 and go to four classifications for football, basketball, & baseball.

Class A: No private schools, financial aid giving schools, magnet schools or open zoned schools. This division is for the small schools that have less than 400 students.

Class AA: No financial aid giving schools. This division is for all schools between 401 & 800 students that do not give financial aid to their student/athletes.

Class AAA: All schools that have between 801 & 1250 students.

Class AAAA: Any school with 1251+ students.

 

1. Eliminate week zero.

2. No "Dead Period" during the Summer or after the season. This should be a decision made by each individual school system.

3. Teams would be allowed three weeks of organized practice & two practice games before the first game.

4. The first games would be the Friday before Labor Day.

5. Go back to a district schedule where only the top two teams make the playoffs

6. Play the championship game on Thanksgiving weekend.

7. The only multiplier used would have the enrollment doubled for all single sex schools.

8. All teams with 6+ regular season wins that don't make the playoffs would be eligible for a bowl game with the TSSAA receiving 1/3 of the gate receipts.

 

All of these things would make it much more difficult to not only win a state championship but also make the playoffs which in return would create much more community support for each school and help increase gate receipts. Going to the playoffs should be a reward for having a good season but with the current system we have teams in the playoffs that don't have a winning record. It's time to do away with the current system that has so many divisions the talent pool is diluted and winning a state title is close to being a joke.

[Indian]

Interesting but will likely never go through, Brentwood Academy winning in the largest class was the catalyst for the original partial split.

 

I have the enrollments handy, will take a look at how that might look since it's just speculation anyway. The only thing I won't be able to plug in is open enrollment.

[ColumbiaBlueNScarlet]

You communicate your points very well, nice job I've enjoyed bantering with you on a variety of topics here recently. Good luck to your Roadrunners next year, they are lucky to have such a fine representative on these boards.

 

I wish you and those you love a very Merry Christmas.

 

Thanks for the compliments. I got on CoachT becuase Austin-East didn't have much representation, and I got tired of people saying non-factual things about Austin-East football. A couple of years ago, I got a little carried away with aggressive comments regarding Austin-East talent and tradition. I learned a lot from you and Warrior2011 on how to voice my opinion in a more reserved, less in-your-face fashion. You always speak with humility.

 

I hope you and yours have a Merry Christmas also!