Open zones, Privates, and Public Schools

[ColumbiaBlueNScarlet]

My suggestion may not be the, be all to end all, but Maryville would probably end up with more competition if some of the better 3,4,&5A teams had to move up after a few years. Never the less, my suggestion seems to make more sense to solve the majority of the problem than a lot of the other suggestions I've seen. And, It is a lot less complicated than most. Nothing is going to completely level the playing field, but my suggestion goes a long way towards doing so.

 

In football, most schools that win the championship 2 out of 3 years don't win the championship for the next 3 years anyway... mainly just Alcoa and Maryville, and Maryville currently plays in the highest classification in their division.

 

IMO, making teams change classifications based on season results is not the answer... JMO though.

[ColumbiaBlueNScarlet]

If you want to fix the public/private, open zone, magnet, etc... school problem there is an easy solution that would make the TSSAA more money and create more fan support for high school athletics. Abolish the current D1/D2 and go to four classifications for football, basketball, & baseball.

Class A: No private schools, financial aid giving schools, magnet schools or open zoned schools. This division is for the small schools that have less than 400 students.

Class AA: No financial aid giving schools. This division is for all schools between 401 & 800 students that do not give financial aid to their student/athletes.

Class AAA: All schools that have between 801 & 1250 students.

Class AAAA: Any school with 1251+ students.

 

1. Eliminate week zero.

2. No "Dead Period" during the Summer or after the season. This should be a decision made by each individual school system.

3. Teams would be allowed three weeks of organized practice & two practice games before the first game.

4. The first games would be the Friday before Labor Day.

5. Go back to a district schedule where only the top two teams make the playoffs

6. Play the championship game on Thanksgiving weekend.

7. The only multiplier used would have the enrollment doubled for all single sex schools.

8. All teams with 6+ regular season wins that don't make the playoffs would be eligible for a bowl game with the TSSAA receiving 1/3 of the gate receipts.

 

All of these things would make it much more difficult to not only win a state championship but also make the playoffs which in return would create much more community support for each school and help increase gate receipts. Going to the playoffs should be a reward for having a good season but with the current system we have teams in the playoffs that don't have a winning record. It's time to do away with the current system that has so many divisions the talent pool is diluted and winning a state title is close to being a joke.

 

I'm a little confused...

Webb is private, they are a financial aid giving school, and they have a little less than 500 students... which classification would they fit into?

[rlh]

I'm a little confused...

Webb is private, they are a financial aid giving school, and they have a little less than 500 students... which classification would they fit into?

 

Division II Class A is where they are. The reason is because they chose to give financial aide to athletes. Were thy not giving out financial aid, they would be Division I and their enrollment would be weighted at 900 via the multiplier.

Edited December 12, 2011 by rlh

[rlh]

Open zone schools should have to use the 1.8 multiplier like the private schools do. That's the only fair thing to do, when closed zone schools have to play with what they've got.

 

South Pittsburg is open zone. A lot of people that should be going to Marion Co. High are going to South Pitt. That gives them an unfair advantage.

 

No, South Pittsburg is not open zone. SPHS, Marion County High (affectionately known as Jasper), and Whitwell have defined school districts and bus routes. Plus, even IF those schools were open zone, they aren't in a metro environment so its a moot point anyway. The west side of the county is made up of mountain land and so is the east. The southern county line is the state line.

[cbg]

I'm a little confused...

Webb is private, they are a financial aid giving school, and they have a little less than 500 students... which classification would they fit into?

With my plan Webb would be in AAA. If you offer financial aid you must play in AAA or AAAA.

[Indian]

I tweaked your plan slightly but kept things the same for the most part. Interesting results. I think A through AAA wouldn't mind but again, AAAA would include Brentwood Academy, etc, since they'd likely want to play at the highest group and that was the cause of the original blow-up.

 

The main thing I couldn't fool with was not knowing for sure which schools are necessarily open zone so I didn't touch that.

 

For Class A I pushed the limit to 450 instead of 400 since there were only about 38 football-playing schools 400 or above. Up to 450 brought it to 55 football schools, 70 total. That takes out all private schools no matter whether they give aid or not. Also all schools that I know to be magnet or charter.

 

For Class AA I made the range from 450 to 700 because going to 800 would have made many more schools in it. It evens out for the most part in the largest two classes. This includes non-aid private schools like Boyd-Buchanan and Friendship. I also included the aid-giving private schools under 250. They would barely be competitive in this group for the most part, they'd have no chance in AAA. For the smallest ones, it doesn't seem to matter whether they give aid or not, as far as competitiveness on a statewide level.

 

For Class AAA I went from 700-1200 and included the aid giving private schools from Ezell-Harding up to Knoxville Webb.

 

AAAA was simple, anything above 1200 plus the current Division II-AA teams-Brentwood Academy, MBA, Baylor, etc.

 

AA, AAA and AAAA each have about 100-110 schools total. AA has about 85 football playing schools since there are several charter, new private school types at the low end. AAA and AAAA lack a few football schools mostly due to some all-girl schools.

 

If it went to a vote, unless you had a lot of influence among the largest public schools, something like this might pass. The main issue for some of the smaller schools might be playing aid-privates but again for the most part the best "mid-size" private schools don't appear to give aid according to TSSAA guidelines.

Edited December 13, 2011 by Indian

[ColumbiaBlueNScarlet]

With my plan Webb would be in AAA. If you offer financial aid you must play in AAA or AAAA.

 

Ok, I got it. Your plan would make for some interesting match-ups. I think a lot of people would have problems with public closed zoned schools having to compete with private financial aid giving schools.

[cbg]

Ok, I got it. Your plan would make for some interesting match-ups. I think a lot of people would have problems with public closed zoned schools having to compete with private financial aid giving schools.

The public schools for many years competed very well with all the private schools. Not until Brentwood Academy beat Gary Rankin and Riverdale did the TSSAA decide to form D1 & D2. Should the TSSAA have formed two divisions because of one school?

 

Another issue is individual sports like Cross Country, Tennis, Golf, Wrestling, Track & Field, etc... All of these sports should crown only one champion.

 

Let's fix the system in Tennessee where a State Champion is truly a great accomplishment. Due to the way that high school athletics have been "WATERED DOWN" we now have teams & individuals winning state championships that would not have made it out of their regional in past years.

[ColumbiaBlueNScarlet]

The public schools for many years competed very well with all the private schools. Not until Brentwood Academy beat Gary Rankin and Riverdale did the TSSAA decide to form D1 & D2. Should the TSSAA have formed two divisions because of one school?

 

Another issue is individual sports like Cross Country, Tennis, Golf, Wrestling, Track & Field, etc... All of these sports should crown only one champion.

 

Let's fix the system in Tennessee where a State Champion is truly a great accomplishment. Due to the way that high school athletics have been "WATERED DOWN" we now have teams & individuals winning state championships that would not have made it out of their regional in past years.

 

I agree that it is watered down now.

 

The championship scores from 1996 (the year before DI and DII were implemented) are as follows:

1A DCA 51, St. Benedict 3

2A Knox Webb 27, Goodpasture 20

3A Melrose 32, Tyner 12

4A Pearl-Cohn 18, Knox Halls 14

5A Brentwood Ady 28, Jefferson Co. 7

 

Brentwood Academy beat Riverdale in 1995. In 1996, 1A and 2A championship games were all private. Five out of 10 (50%) teams were private; three out of five (60%) champions were private. Currently, private schools make up approximately 14% of the high schools in TN (I don't know what it was in 1996, but I would guess that it was similar to what it is now). In 1996, schools making up 14% of the population made up 50% of the teams competing for the state championship and made up 60% of the football state champions. I would assume that other sports had similar percentages.

 

So yes, public schools competed, but I think it showed that private schools had an advantage.

[Indian]

Ok, I got it. Your plan would make for some interesting match-ups. I think a lot of people would have problems with public closed zoned schools having to compete with private financial aid giving schools.

 

 

I did a Class A layout with the only differences being the enrollment cutoff pushed up to 450, and going with 8 regions instead of districts because of only 55 or so football schools included. Wasn't too surprising, this year it probably wouldn't have been much different than what we've seen in recent years.

 

Some of the schools are a bit spread out but with no private schools I'd say most would accept that trade-off. I had region winners as Hampton, Greenback, Coalfield, South Pittsburg, Trousdale County, Eagleville, Wayne County and Humboldt.

 

Quarterfinalists in playoffs-Greenback, Rockwood, Coalfield, South Pittsburg, Trousdale, Gordonsville, Wayne County, Huntingdon. Semis-Greenback vs South Pittsburg, Trousdale vs Wayne County, Finals, South Pittsburg vs Trousdale with Trousdale winning.

 

I expect the the AA, AAA and AAAA matchups to be a lot less familiar which would be a positive if something like this was to ever take effect.

[Oldschool31]

I agree that it is watered down now.

 

The championship scores from 1996 (the year before DI and DII were implemented) are as follows:

1A DCA 51, St. Benedict 3

2A Knox Webb 27, Goodpasture 20

3A Melrose 32, Tyner 12

4A Pearl-Cohn 18, Knox Halls 14

5A Brentwood Ady 28, Jefferson Co. 7

 

Brentwood Academy beat Riverdale in 1995. In 1996, 1A and 2A championship games were all private. Five out of 10 (50%) teams were private; three out of five (60%) champions were private. Currently, private schools make up approximately 14% of the high schools in TN (I don't know what it was in 1996, but I would guess that it was similar to what it is now). In 1996, schools making up 14% of the population made up 50% of the teams competing for the state championship and made up 60% of the football state champions. I would assume that other sports had similar percentages.

 

So yes, public schools competed, but I think it showed that private schools had an advantage.

IMHO the best example is Local Youth Club teams VS AAU traveling teams. My son has been involved in both. When he was 10 our local youth club had a very good basketball team, so we decided to play in a few local tournaments and did quiet well against other community teams. Our first experience against a true AAU traveling team was a 50 point loss. Two years later we decided to let him play for an AAU team, the results were the same except we were on the other side of the fence. We played in a few local tournaments and drilled some good local teams. The AAU experience was great, not because we drilled outmanned local teams, but when we played teams like us. IMHO public vs private is like local youth club team vs traveling AAU teams. In reality everyone on the AAU team could have played for a private school that was centrally located. The problem several parents including myself couldn't afford the tuition. Edited January 3, 2012 by Oldschool31

[tradertwo]

IMHO the best example is Local Youth Club teams VS AAU traveling teams. My son has been involved in both. When he was 10 our local youth club had a very good basketball team, so we decided to play in a few local tournaments and did quiet well against other community teams. Our first experience against a true AAU traveling team was a 50 point loss. Two years later we decided to let him play for an AAU team, the results were the same except we were on the other side of the fence. We played in a few local tournaments and drilled some good local teams. The AAU experience was great, not because we drilled outmanned local teams, but when we played teams like us. IMHO public vs private is like local youth club team vs traveling AAU teams. In reality everyone on the AAU team could have played for a private school that was centrally located. The problem several parents including myself couldn't afford the tuition.

And if this "problem" were solved via scholarship?