The Pipeline....

[tmarshall7]

Mike is spot on with what happens when parents of AAU wrestlers are held back because of a broken TMSAA middle school system.  I witnessed it first hand this year in Bristol.  Our middle school started a program and most of our 7/8 graders from club joined the team.  They were back at club within a month and the MS team ended the year with 4 wrestlers.  By the time many of these kids get to middle school they have invested 1/2 their lives in wrestling along with tons of their parent's time and money.  Neither the kids nor the parents are willing to take two steps back in order to show school spirit.  I tried to be positive and supportive of the program, but parents make the ultimate decision.  15 mediocre matches vs 60+ very competitive matches--its an easy decision. 

 

I don't know the answer to the TMSAA middle school team issue but the consensus is that the current system is not working in most areas.  The kids need the dual team experience along with a high school type practice atmosphere.  The people at TN AAU have done a great job with creating duals teams and team competitions.  This helps many make the decision to remain at club and resist the urge to move to a school team simply for this aspect. 

 

Splitting the competition is not good for anyone involved.  I hope we can find a solution. 

[TDArtist]

Agreed

Lead, Follow Or get out of the way... The middle school schedule in region 1 is limited to starting after JAN 01 and ends in Feb. According to TSSAA kids are not supposed to be on the mats before jan 01... And the can't participate in AAU or USAW during the season- none of this helps grow the sport. If not for the clubs taking up the slack in training and competition- TSSAA would have successfully killed the sport here in TN. If stymying the sport wasn't their intent with the AAU and USAW prohibitions it is an unintended consequence that needs to be changed.

You can join the new Big 8 conference next year.  Several of the upper east TN schools broke away from Morristown and Jefferson County to form a new conference this year.  They started in November and just had the conference duals and conference individual tournament last week.  Many of those wrestlers are now on the AAU circuit and are starting to prep for AAU regionals, AAU states and nationals.  I know that we have several that are planning on going to middle school nationals in Virginia Beach.  Talk to Jason Shelton at GMS or Jeff Price at LB/SH to see of they are accepting new members next year.  You are not limited by the TMSAA but by the conference that you are in.

[BlackknightGATA]

You can join the new Big 8 conference next year. Several of the upper east TN schools broke away from Morristown and Jefferson County to form a new conference this year. They started in November and just had the conference duals and conference individual tournament last week. Many of those wrestlers are now on the AAU circuit and are starting to prep for AAU regionals, AAU states and nationals. I know that we have several that are planning on going to middle school nationals in Virginia Beach. Talk to Jason Shelton at GMS or Jeff Price at LB/SH to see of they are accepting new members next year. You are not limited by the TMSAA but by the conference that you are in.

Thanks for the information- those guys were smart to make the break and their kids will benefit from the decision....

[tmarshall7]

You can join the new Big 8 conference next year.  Several of the upper east TN schools broke away from Morristown and Jefferson County to form a new conference this year.  They started in November and just had the conference duals and conference individual tournament last week.  Many of those wrestlers are now on the AAU circuit and are starting to prep for AAU regionals, AAU states and nationals.  I know that we have several that are planning on going to middle school nationals in Virginia Beach.  Talk to Jason Shelton at GMS or Jeff Price at LB/SH to see of they are accepting new members next year.  You are not limited by the TMSAA but by the conference that you are in.

Aren't you still a part of TMSAA?

[Nainten]

Admittedly I am an outsider looking in at this issue so forgive me if I don't catch what may be obvious to others but I honestly don't know why "middle school" wrestling is even viable given the prevalence of AAU and USAW programs in the state.  I hear the same complaint about the lesser experience of MS wrestling but apparent it still persists.  Why hasn't "evolution" done away with it?  In the Memphis area the only middle school teams are a handful of privates and they basically operate the same as the clubs.   All other 9 or so programs are clubs.  I just don't see the overall benefit of having middle schools involved in the sport at the youth level.  Duals?  We schedule duals amongst the clubs when we want and still have the benefit of a wrestling season from November to March.  Some things have been changing out here in Memphis for the better in the last few years and I am glad to say that middle school wrestling is not part of these changes. 

[cbg]

Why would anyone want to be associated with the TMSAA when they limit you to 12 official dates? It is my understanding that they also require middle school matches to consist of 3 periods that are 1.30 minutes in duration. Anyone that has ever watched the Ohio Junior High State Tournament would have to agree that it is the best. The Ohio High School Athletic Association runs the tournament and don't care if you wrestle for a club team or a middle school team. They have a 5th & 6th grade division and a

7th & 8th grade division. I would like to see Tennessee have the tournament the weekend after the TSSAA state wrestling tournament. Run in just like they do in Ohio & have it at a large arena or convention center.

[mat73557]

I think TMSAA wrestling programs are not allowed to wrestle club programs?

[BlackknightGATA]

I think TMSAA wrestling programs are not allowed to wrestle club programs?

Before or after the season it's ok - no AAU OR USAW DURING SEASON...

[CoachKramer]

Admittedly I am an outsider looking in at this issue so forgive me if I don't catch what may be obvious to others but I honestly don't know why "middle school" wrestling is even viable given the prevalence of AAU and USAW programs in the state.  I hear the same complaint about the lesser experience of MS wrestling but apparent it still persists.  Why hasn't "evolution" done away with it?  In the Memphis area the only middle school teams are a handful of privates and they basically operate the same as the clubs.   All other 9 or so programs are clubs.  I just don't see the overall benefit of having middle schools involved in the sport at the youth level.  Duals?  We schedule duals amongst the clubs when we want and still have the benefit of a wrestling season from November to March.  Some things have been changing out here in Memphis for the better in the last few years and I am glad to say that middle school wrestling is not part of these changes.

we have 2 middle school teams and a club and im a firm believer that Middle school is a viable asset to any high school wrestling program. Many times you get kids who will go out for a middle school team that wouldnt necessarily join a club. some may have friends talk them into coming after school or might pass by see it and show some interest. Not all parents will travel a few nights a week and pay a fee to wrestle but many will let their kid stay after school for a free program. out of our 14 starters this year 9 wrestled both and 6 didnt wrestle club but wrestled middle school. Both entities serve a purpose. You shouldnt try and end middle school wrestling but find a way to do both so that they do not conflict with each other. Our season is from the middle of october until holiday break in december then the kids go AAU. Ending programs is not the answer.

[SAC]

we have 2 middle school teams and a club and im a firm believer that Middle school is a viable asset to any high school wrestling program. Many times you get kids who will go out for a middle school team that wouldnt necessarily join a club. some may have friends talk them into coming after school or might pass by see it and show some interest. Not all parents will travel a few nights a week and pay a fee to wrestle but many will let their kid stay after school for a free program. out of our 14 starters this year 9 wrestled both and 6 didnt wrestle club but wrestled middle school. Both entities serve a purpose. You shouldnt try and end middle school wrestling but find a way to do both so that they do not conflict with each other. Our season is from the middle of october until holiday break in december then the kids go AAU. Ending programs is not the answer.

I think his point was that the TMSAA's restrictions wouldn't cause anyone in our area to even consider starting a middle school program. IMHO, an organization that is designed for athletics should never serve to limit a them if that is what its real mission is... Unfortunately many believe that the TMSAA and TSSAA are more concerned in creating revenue than opportunities for their athletes. Age and weight divisions serve to provide an equal playing field... the only other matter I could see either involving themselves in would be one state tournament or a large school and a small school division. Simply because wrestling isn't as prevalent here as other states... I know this is where the private versus public school issue surfaces but in our neck of the woods unless you attend a city school (well, former city school now as a result of the merger) you have to pay to play sports in the public school. Plenty of public schools on Intermat's Fab 50 rankings...

Edited February 5, 2014 by SAC

[russianbear]

My son wrestled for the HCAC for 3 years. He enjoyed the experience and so did I. Did he get better? A little. But most importantly, he enjoyed it.

 

I realized that he was only 12, 13 and 14 years old. I realize there's still lots of life left for pressure. One reason the rules are as they are is to allow kids to try multiple sports. One can play football, basketball, wrestle and baseball. Now they will have an idea if they want to specialize in high school. Believe it or not, there is more to life other than wrestling. We're talking about 12, 13 and 14 year olds. Perhaps many are meant to be touring the country from tournament to tournament to satisfy dad's thirst. But not all. Many just want to wrestle and enjoy it. Upon completion of the HCAC season my son got 3 months of freestyle and Greco. That left July - December to train 'offseason'. There's plenty of opportunities to get better. I wasn't worried about him missing important events (if there is such a thing at that age).

 

Tom Brands and Mark Schwab both have kids that wrestle. They wrestle with dad at home on the couch. Both are adamant about their sons not starting too early. But again, all kids are different.

Edited February 5, 2014 by russianbear

[Sommers]

Hey, here's copy & paste that puts us in the to 25!!

 

http://awn.theopenmat.com/2011/11/calculating-the-top-25-high-school-wrestling-states/

 

Calculating the Top 25 High School Wrestling States

 

on November 16, 2011 7:50 am in Feature Articles, High School Wrestling

 

 

By Adrian Troyer, guest contributor

 

One way of judging the quality of high school wrestling in a particular state is by looking at the depth of top quality individuals in that state. Top quality individuals are indicative of good programs and a competitive environment.

 

As an outsider, I can objectively say that TOM does an excellent job with its national high school Top 20 individual rankings. They are extensively researched and compiled very logically. As I did last year for a discussion board topic, I have used a point system to identify both frequency and quality of top individuals in each state as one way to evaluate that state’s relative high school wrestling strength.

 

Using TOM’s rankings of 470 individuals nationally, I gave each state 10 points for an individual that appears in the Top 20 and 5 points for an individual appearing in the honorable mention section. Additionally, I added 20 points for a #1 ranking, 19 for a #2 ranking, 18 for #3, and so on, down to 1 point for a #20 ranking. So, a #20 position equals 11 points total and a #1 position equals 30 points total. These points give each state a “Total Depth†rating.

 

After this, I calculated the number of points scored for each state per 1 million residents of that state. I call this the “Wrestling-Crazy†rating. It essentially shows the Top 25 states’ quality per ca pita. In other words, regardless of population, how ‘into’ wrestling is each state.

 

Finally, I compiled an Overall Top 25 HS Wrestling States that synthesizes the two ratings for equal value (total strength plus ‘craziness’).

 

Only states with at least 5 individuals ranked were considered.

 

Overall Top 25 High School Wrestling States

 

(Average of “Total Depth†and “Wrestling Crazyâ€)

 

Pennsylvania 96.2

Iowa 80.0

Minnesota 70.6

Ohio 70.4

Illinois 60.5

California 42.7

Oklahoma 41.6

New Jersey 37.3

Indiana 35.4

Michigan 31.7

Wisconsin 30.0

Nebraska 29.2

Oregon 28.4

Missouri 27.6

Virginia 26.0

Maryland 21.5

Florida 20.6

Nevada 15.1

Georgia 14.8

Washington 14.5

New York 10.7

Kansas 10.2

North Carolina 8.0

Texas 6.2

Tennessee 6.1

 

Total Depth

(Total raw points, times 0.13)

 

Pennsylvania 121.1

Ohio 85.4

Illinois 76.3

California 71.1

Minnesota 58.5

Iowa 46.3

New Jersey 40.3

Michigan 36.0

Indiana 32.8

Florida 29.5

Oklahoma 27.8

Virginia 26.8

Wisconsin 25.9

Missouri 24.6

Oregon 19.2

Maryland 18.7

Georgia 16.7

New York 15.5

Washington 13.7

Nebraska 11.5

Texas 9.6

North Carolina 8.9

Nevada 8.0

Kansas 5.6

Tennessee 5.6

 

“Wrestling-Crazy†Rating

(Total points per million state residents)

 

Iowa 113.8

Minnesota 82.6

Pennsylvania 71.4

Oklahoma 55.5

Ohio 55.5

Nebraska 47.

Illinois 44.6

Indiana 38.0

Oregon 37.6

New Jersey 34.4

Wisconsin 34.1

Missouri 30.7

Michigan 27.3

Virginia 25.1

Maryland 24.3

Nevada 22.2

Washington 15.3

Kansas 14.7

California 14.3

Georgia 12.9

Florida 11.8

North Carolina 7.0

Tennessee 6.6

New York 6.0

Texas 2.9

 

Tn #23!!

Edited February 5, 2014 by Sommers