Freshman State Title Chances

[JIII]

3 minutes ago, oceansize42 said:

JIII Also conveniently overlooking this part from the 2015 article:

Foundation matches every dollar

 

 

 

Your quoting an article that is eight years old. A lot has changed in those eight years. What I stated was fact and first hand knowledge not from a eight year old news article.

[PackMentality]

2 hours ago, Ummmno said:

There's two different conversations going on here. 

 

1. They're saying that Hicks doesn't have a chance because Walker wrestled a tougher schedule. Which is wrong.

 

2. They're saying that Cleveland wins titles solely because, again, they wrestle a tougher schedule. Which is also wrong. 

These are conversation you are creating.  The THREAD is about which freshman has the best chance to win a state title.

[oceansize42]

Just now, JIII said:

Your quoting an article that is eight years old. A lot has changed in those eight years. What I stated was fact and first hand knowledge not from a eight year old news article.

Right but you are acting as if you pulled yourself up by your bootstraps.  You did not. There was a lot of help to create that dynasty which seems to make you mad.

[JIII]

Just now, oceansize42 said:

Right but you are acting as if you pulled yourself up by your bootstraps.  You did not. There was a lot of help to create that dynasty which seems to make you mad.

I stated right here in the very first sentence. “No denying that money and resources contribute to the success.” 

I am a lot of things but mad is laughable. I couldn’t be more grateful and appreciative of the coaches and the people in the community in Cleveland. I owe Bosken and Knox a debt that no amount of money could ever payback. Those guys Invested time in my child and sacrificed time with there families to help him improve. 

[oceansize42]

8 minutes ago, JIII said:

I stated right here in the very first sentence. “No denying that money and resources contribute to the success.” 

I am a lot of things but mad is laughable. I couldn’t be more grateful and appreciative of the coaches and the people in the community in Cleveland. I owe Bosken and Knox a debt that no amount of money could ever payback. Those guys Invested time in my child and sacrificed time with there families to help him improve. 

True, but everyone time this topic comes up it reverts back to the well "no one wants to accept we do the work". Simply isn't true.  Bosken has earned everyone's respect (I don't know Knox) for the countless hours he spends.  Man cares about wrestling and especially Cleveland wrestling.  Everyone involved in wrestling knows you all work.  But stop, just stop, with the arguments that imply how all of the many many investments initially made by one wealthy patron and his foundation didn't really matter with respect to where Cleveland is at. They did. They mattered an absolute metric ton.  No one in the state, could do what you are all were allotted and to pretend otherwise is tiresome.  I'm not mad. A rising tide lifts all boats.

Edited February 9, 2022 by oceansize42

[FrecoFanatic]

4 hours ago, greendoor said:

Makes you wonder how Signal Mountain 106 in his shallow pool beat a Greeneville kid who spent all year in the deep end. Cool pool analogy thanks for using it.

That is a crazy statement. Joseph Uhrchuck has wrestled at the toughest tournaments in the country every year forever. He was a Tulsa Finalist last year and was in the Gold Pool at VAC every year. Same with Ethan, who, by the way is his brother's practice partner. He is in the deep end every day at practice. While it is not the sole factor, anyone who thinks traveling and wrestling the toughest competition through the developmental years does not have a MAJOR impact on success in high school is crazy. You also don't lose that feel or edge when your two practice partners are both state Champs and kids who have done the same things. Lol.

[Mason422]

1 hour ago, oceansize42 said:

I stated at least three times the coaches and kids must do their jobs, and they do.  What you can't accept how much the money helped get you to this point.  I already accept you all do the work.

The money is a super small part of their success.   I have been around Cleveland and Bosken quiet a bit and I will share with why they are successful in my opinion. They work harder than a lot of programs, they have the best feeder program in the state by far and that’s not close, they have dedicated coaches that keep the kids engaged all year long. The coaches themselves are great coaches and I can keep going. 
 

the bottom line that if any HS in the state puts as much effort in building a program as Cleveland does they would be hard to beat as well. 
 

last point. Money can’t buy motivation, discipline and work ethic.  The short cut to winning state titles is to wrestle all year around and Cleveland does that. 

[oceansize42]

2 minutes ago, Mason422 said:

The money is a super small part of their success.   I have been around Cleveland and Bosken quiet a bit and I will share with why they are successful in my opinion. They work harder than a lot of programs, they have the best feeder program in the state by far and that’s not close, they have dedicated coaches that keep the kids engaged all year long. The coaches themselves are great coaches and I can keep going. 
 

the bottom line that if any HS in the state puts as much effort in building a program as Cleveland does they would be hard to beat as well. 
 

last point. Money can’t buy motivation, discipline and work ethic.  The short cut to winning state titles is to wrestle all year around and Cleveland does that. 

No arguments to any of that.  Cleveland, coaches and kids, absolutely do the work.  Their youth program is second to none.  I've never heard a single person make this statement:  "Cleveland is lazy".

Edited February 9, 2022 by oceansize42

[Mason422]

4 minutes ago, oceansize42 said:

No arguments to any of that.  Cleveland, coaches and kids, absolutely do the work.  Their youth program is second to none.  I've never heard a single person make this statement:  "Cleveland is lazy".

I know that’s what you meant but how your statement originally read was that their success is because of the money and I think that’s the least reason that they are successful. They are freaking dedicated. 

[oceansize42]

2 minutes ago, Mason422 said:

I know that’s what you meant but how your statement originally read was that their success is because of the money and I think that’s the least reason that they are successful. They are freaking dedicated. 

Well I will make one argument now that I re-read.  The initial investment made by Allan Jones cannot be replicated monetarily by any other school in TN.  Those investments, as Bosken stated himself, made possible Cleveland's transformation.  The coaches and the kids ran with it.

Edited February 9, 2022 by oceansize42

[Rasslinking]

8 minutes ago, oceansize42 said:

Well I will make one argument now that I re-read.  The initial investment made by Allan Jones cannot be replicated monetarily by any other school in TN.  Those investments, as Bosken stated himself, made possible Cleveland's transformation.  The coaches and the kids ran with it.

AGAIN, that “initial investment”  was given to HIRE a coach….. that coach left Cleveland in 2010. Will we continue to say this is why they are winning in 20 more years??

 

I’m not arguing that the support Cleveland has isn’t helpful(but they have the support bc they win….. nobody likes to be associated with programs that don’t win), but this initial investment post is crazy.

 

[oceansize42]

49 minutes ago, Rasslinking said:

AGAIN, that “initial investment”  was given to HIRE a coach….. that coach left Cleveland in 2010. Will we continue to say this is why they are winning in 20 more years??

 

I’m not arguing that the support Cleveland has isn’t helpful(but they have the support bc they win….. nobody likes to be associated with programs that don’t win), but this initial investment post is crazy.

 

I should be more clear.  The initial investments, matching dollar for dollar by his foundation, funding the kids clubs, constructing the Jones center for wrestling, and purchasing a bus for the kids club cannot be replicated by anyone (?) in the state.  What can be replicated is their attention to detail and work.  But all of those investments matter and again, as stated by Bosken himself, were critical to Cleveland's transformation. I'm sure you and others are telling the truth in that perhaps Jones' involvement is minimal these days.  Full, absolutely full credit to Cleveland for utilizing what they were given to it's potential.

I would liken this to Kemmerer's arrival in NE TN.  Joe's arrival (to my knowledge) was brought about by one dad whose name I won't mention.  Bringing in Kemmerer mattered and it took a dad with resources to make that happen.   No resources, no Joe, and then there is a bunch of kids who wouldn't be where they are today.  Resources always matter, not quite as much as the work, but they matter.

Edited February 9, 2022 by oceansize42