Shot Clock

[SpottedGoat]

100% need a shot clock. Trying to stall the last 5 minutes of a game with a 6 point lead is horrible for the players, fans & game itself. Talent rich larger schools with aggressive fast paced play may not be such an issue. But these smaller schools with maybe 1 or 2 really good players, "stall" is just as much part of their game plan as "make your free throws". It's awful.

[Random1234]

11 hours ago, TryNotToSuck said:

I went back and watched the first half between Trinity Christian and Gibson County girls that happened in early December to see if there would be any shot clock violations if the players to play with the current NCAA rules (:30 seconds in full length, :20 seconds if there would be a foul (inside :20 second mark), kick ball, or an offensive rebound). In that first half, there would be 1 shot clock violation (Gibson County held the ball for nearly 1 minute late in the second quarter). Other than that one possession, there were lots of shots being released with 5-10 seconds to spare left on the imaginary shot clock (thank you for TCA for broadcasting the game that showed the scoreboard and the game clock).

The pace was great, lots of field goal attempts, and that resulted in 74 points combined in the first half between the two teams. Yes, it does help when there are good players playing for both teams. Point of what I'm trying to say, I don't think adding a shot clock would effect a lot of teams in terms of pace. If it were to effect some teams, then they need to make an adjustment to increase their pace of play. Teams have 10 seconds to get it across half court, so I do understand if TSSAA were to follow current NCAA rules and put :20 seconds on an offensive rebound.

I may go travel an hour plus to watch a region championship between Westview and Gibson County, and I may take a sick day off work and travel 2 and a half hours to watch 4-5 games in Murfreesboro to see the state tournament. As a fan, I do not want to see a team stall. Period. I simply don't care for any strategic reasons.

TSSAA let school officials/personnel handle the play clock for the regular season during the football season. I don't really see an issue if they let school officials/personnel handle it during the regular season in basketball. If the game officials are noticing a trend that a school personnel is favoring their team with the shot clock, then issue a warning. If it were to happen again, then issue a one shot technical foul for the other team. A small penalty against the home team that may be cheating in a way regarding the shot clock. 

Regarding to the price for the installation of a shot clock and getting someone to run is bogus. If a high school just installed a turf field or LED lights for their football stadium and a new indoor practice facility, then trust me, they can afford a shot clock. Add $0.50 cents to the popcorn and coke, and that'll offset the "game fee" for someone to run the shot clock. It's not that hard to think about.

I would say you just made the argument for having a shot clock. In your example, the game that was played had a great pace due to the fact shots were going up within the "imaginary shot clock timerame". If the shot clock was actually implemented, the difference would have been that team couldn't have held the ball for that full minute, possible 2-3 more possesions in that game. That's the type of ball we want to see across all levels. No one wants to see the alternative which is teams sitting on the ball for 2-3 minutes at a time. 

[crazzyness]

The only way a team can "hold" the ball is if the defense allows them to. It's that simple. 

[Random1234]

3 hours ago, crazzyness said:

The only way a team can "hold" the ball is if the defense allows them to. It's that simple. 

And when there is no shot clock lol

[tradertwo]

4 hours ago, crazzyness said:

The only way a team can "hold" the ball is if the defense allows them to. It's that simple. 

TRUTH BOMB! Shot clock would just be another example of taking strategy and basketball IQ out of the game...if your defense can't pressure the ball enough to force the action with the five second rule while not allowing easy shots, you need to put more emphasis on your defensive strategy. If the team "holding the ball" is subpar, how did they get the lead in the first place? I love watching "run and gun" basketball as much as the next guy, but I appreciate a well coached team executing their strategy to the point that the defense can't compensate for it more.

Edited March 1, 2023 by tradertwo

[1983]

1 hour ago, tradertwo said:

TRUTH BOMB! Shot clock would just be another example of taking strategy and basketball IQ out of the game...if your defense can't pressure the ball enough to force the action with the five second rule while not allowing easy shots, you need to put more emphasis on your defensive strategy. If the team "holding the ball" is subpar, how did they get the lead in the first place? I love watching "run and gun" basketball as much as the next guy, but I appreciate a well coached team executing their strategy to the point that the defense can't compensate for it more.

You can do all that with a shot clock as well. If you can’t run an offensive play in 45 seconds then that’s a basketball IQ problem for a coach as well.  My guess is the main people to not want a shot clock are some coaches, but I would argue a majority of players would say yes to a shot clock and a majority of fans.  

[tradertwo]

6 hours ago, 1983 said:

You can do all that with a shot clock as well. If you can’t run an offensive play in 45 seconds then that’s a basketball IQ problem for a coach as well.  My guess is the main people to not want a shot clock are some coaches, but I would argue a majority of players would say yes to a shot clock and a majority of fans.  

Takes more skill to run a play to get off a shot than it does to stall without turning the ball over? I don't think so. You have the ten second line and the five second count in your favor on defense...can't defend/don't deserve to win. Basketball isn't a contest of "fastest, strongest, biggest" and it should never turn into that.

[1983]

9 minutes ago, tradertwo said:

Takes more skill to run a play to get off a shot than it does to stall without turning the ball over? I don't think so. You have the ten second line and the five second count in your favor on defense...can't defend/don't deserve to win. Basketball isn't a contest of "fastest, strongest, biggest" and it should never turn into that.

We can agree to disagree on stalling.  And If you have say a Jada Harrison on your team you aren’t stealing the ball from her or turning her over.  If she wants to hold the ball the whole game your team is beat.  And I would argue most of the time the fastest, strongest and biggest do win.  Not all the time but most of the time.  

[tradertwo]

15 hours ago, 1983 said:

We can agree to disagree on stalling.  And If you have say a Jada Harrison on your team you aren’t stealing the ball from her or turning her over.  If she wants to hold the ball the whole game your team is beat.  And I would argue most of the time the fastest, strongest and biggest do win.  Not all the time but most of the time.  

That's my point, most of the time not all the time. If you have Jada Harrison and she's holding the ball, you can pressure/trap her with the aid of the midcourt line and the five second clock to get the ball out of her hands...if you try to match her scoring while letting her dictate the pace of the game, you're doomed. Not knocking either team, but watch the replay of Gibson County's loss in Murfreesboro last year...they were clearly the more talented team, but were eliminated because of a strategy that they weren't prepared for. York had to play well enough to be in position to control the last four minutes or so of the game, but without holding the ball at the end (IMO) Gibson Co. advances.

[Expatriate]

On 2/28/2023 at 7:28 PM, HawkGuy06 said:

Oh ok! Yea TSSAA doesn’t want to spend any money. They just collect it. If they agree to it, it will be at least 4-5 years imo

(on set of "Jeopardy")
HawkGuy06: I'll take "Completely Obvious Things" for $800, Ken.
Host: Why won't Tennessee ever have a shot clock in high school basketball?

[Bobcats83]

No shot clock.  Biggest obstacle in my opinion is the lack of quality officials. There are some good ones out there but some struggle and now we want to give them something else to keep track of.  
bad idea 

Edited March 4, 2023 by Bobcats83

[crazzyness]

On 3/1/2023 at 4:04 PM, Random1234 said:

And when there is no shot clock lol

Defend the ball. Deny the pass. Trap.

NFHS has the 5 second closely guarded rule. So literally the ONLY way a team can just stand there with the ball is if the defense allows them to. It's that simple.

If team A can move without the ball, pass and run a motion offense better than team B can defend, why should team A be penalized for it?