Top 10 Head Coaches Power Rankings

[cowcatcherII]

5 minutes ago, cobrakid8 said:

I seriously just don’t understand it. It’s like he thinks we are taking away from the program by saying money has really helped them, but I guess he doesn’t see it as taking away from other coaches by saying they just outwork everyone lol. Yeah hard work can do a lot, but it’s like everyone else is racing a nascar race in a pinto and they are over here complaining it’s just hard work while their corvette laps the field. 

Exactly. If you go back and just read some of his posts, I would be embarrassed if I were Coach Knox or Mr. Jones. 
 

You don’t see McCallie and Baylor’s coaches whining and getting all defensive when people bring light to their monetary advantages. 
 

Coach Bosken is obviously a proven coach, but appears to be a little immature and insecure. Maybe that’s why he didn’t get the head job when Knox took over?

As I said, he has no reason to be so defensive and insecure though. You, I, and others have done nothing but tip our caps to the job he’s done. 

[coachinhoops]

Reading this post is like watching someone trying to tell the writer of a book what the book was about... I think Josh Bosken knows more about what goes on on Cleveland wrestling than anyone else here posting.

[GruncleD]

1 hour ago, cobrakid8 said:

that school(WC) was built and opened in 2001, you do know that Cleveland won state titles before Knox ever came along, pretty sure the same people crying about how bad Yost is doing at McCallie maybe don't know he won state titles at Cleveland BEFORE Knox took over there and was there before Knox got there?  By the way he led them to 3 State titles, sadly McCallie and their upper level administration took focus off wrestling and screwed Jake, thankfully Cleveland hasnt done that to Knox or he would prob be screwed also. But if you are obtuse enough to believe he could just jump on over to Wilson Central and start winning state titles, you sure as heck dont know as much about wrestling as you think you do! Oh by the way Cleveland won 3 straight duals titles in 92, 93, and 94, Miller did a great job and actually built that program, they reached another level once Jones got fully invested in it when his own sons went there and he hated the thought of Bradley Central winning so many state titles. Jake Yost won 3 STRAIGHT titles there before leaving for McCallie. 

 

Coach Kramer coached and did well in a much better wrestling state in Michigan, started at Wilson Central who had done NOTHING in their 7 years previously, in 4 years have WC at the state tourney every single season since that time, 12 straight years with 5 runner-ups. Not even Cleveland has that same record of straight duals qualifications. So Yost comes in, they win state titles in 2013, 2014 and 2015, Yost leaves and 2016 is one season with Bosken and 2017 first season of Knox.  He's a good coach, but he stepped into a program already fully built and has maintained that great quality ever since.(Which also by the way, sometimes a head coach gets way more credit than they should, the people they surround themselves with also make a huge difference and Josh at Higher calling and the assistants Joey has surrounding him have made that the premier wrestling team in the state as far as public schools. Just like with Saban getting all the credit at Bama(he was average at best at Michigan State), its usually those who surround you and again the Jimmy and Joes that make all the difference. Sorry for those that think that takes away from Knox as he is a great coach, just to me personally he isn't really close to those that are the best in the state or the best.  

Not sure what Michigan has to do with Wilson Central and I missed how many state championships were in those 12 straight years. Mr. Jones is a great supporter of Cleveland wrestling and has provided funding for transportation in the past, but one of our other supporters has inked that check the last few years. And you failed to mention the 2 full sets of new mats Cleveland received over the last year. Who inked those checks? You and “related to us” appear to be the Mr Know-it-alls about Cleveland wrestling finances, tell us. Success breeds success and supporters. And last, thanks for mentioning the great support staff Knox has surrounded his self with, Great Coaches do that you know. 

 

 

 

[cobrakid8]

12 minutes ago, GruncleD said:

Not sure what Michigan has to do with Wilson Central and I missed how many state championships were in those 12 straight years. Mr. Jones is a great supporter of Cleveland wrestling and has provided funding for transportation in the past, but one of our other supporters has inked that check the last few years. And you failed to mention the 2 full sets of new mats Cleveland received over the last year. Who inked those checks? You and “related to us” appear to be the Mr Know-it-alls about Cleveland wrestling finances, tell us. Success breeds success and supporters. And last, thanks for mentioning the great support staff Knox has surrounded his self with, Great Coaches do that you know. 

 

 

 

I said unlike coach Knox who has never coached anywhere else, Coach Kramer was a head coach and done well in Michigan. Maybe you need some reading comprehension classes. So he built a program, Knox didn’t he stepped into one and has done a great job building on the program he took over. 
 

I also know the foundation puts a lot of money into the program, maybe that’s how you can say Allan doesn’t give that money or write that check. Just like Nathan does but let’s pretend that also isn’t Allan Jones money. But no I have no clue how any of this works, I just have to have morons like you tell me it’s not what happens because god forbid anyone knows what goes on behind the curtain. Like the wizard of oz over here with you Clevelanders! 

[cobrakid8]

24 minutes ago, cowcatcherII said:

Exactly. If you go back and just read some of his posts, I would be embarrassed if I were Coach Knox or Mr. Jones. 
 

You don’t see McCallie and Baylor’s coaches whining and getting all defensive when people bring light to their monetary advantages. 
 

Coach Bosken is obviously a proven coach, but appears to be a little immature and insecure. Maybe that’s why he didn’t get the head job when Knox took over?

As I said, he has no reason to be so defensive and insecure though. You, I, and others have done nothing but tip our caps to the job he’s done. 

Pretty sure Josh did take over when Yost left, Josh stepped down after a year and Knox took over. I don’t know all the details to that but I think Bosken just likes the youth aspect more than dealing with the crossing the T’s and dotting the i’s that being a head coach of a high school program does. I would understand that and there are some mighty fine youth coaches that don’t want a lot to do with a head coach of a high school program. 

[BobCorker]

To reduce a coach’s responsibility down to just winning/losing state titles seems to be a very shallow definition of coaching.  I suspect those of us who view from the stands only see a tenth of what makes a good coach a good coach.  Do they build a culture of academic excellence? Do they take in kids who need additional support?  Do they build relationships with businesses in their communities and foster community service opportunities?  Do they personify character and sportsmanship?  Do they have lasting relationships with their athletes years after said athletes have left their community?  I suspect we will never know enough to answer these questions objectively.

From an outside observer’s perspective, there are only a handful of programs/coaches that seem to support their wrestlers year-round.  To rank them would be too subjective.

Cleveland is at every major tournament in the offseason.  Now they admittedly never wrestle anyone with a pulse during the season; I suspect this is to protect their brand. In the offseason, they go to every major event (GFC, Fargo, US Open, Super 32, NHSCAs, Elite 8) and Knox and company are always there. They go to every local event and Knox and the staff are there. Who cares where/how they get their money… they make it happen.  Anyone else is free to do the same hard work and build their own program.  Who can blame kids like the Fowlers, Boyd, High, Davis, Roller, Szymborski, Enest, Lundy, etc. for moving into the school district?  It is a free country.  Families are allowed to move if they think it will benefit their kids.  Anyone who can’t admit this program works their butt off is just jealous.  Kids would not move from around the country if the program wasn’t working hard.  One of the top 10 programs in the SE.

Christian Brothers is everywhere.  Coach Harrison is incredibly underrated, IMO. He should be near the top of this list.  He and his staff travel during the season more than any program besides Baylor.  He is at every out-of-season tournament including Fargo, Super 32, GFC, Cadet/Jr Duals, etc.  Coach Harrison would be very hard to beat if his program were anywhere other than Memphis.

Baylor seems to travel out-of-state just about every weekend of the high school season here recently. Their coaching staff looks to be present at GFC, Super 32, Fargo, Vegas, Cadet/Jr Duals, and every local club tournament. It seems they have placers/finalists at just about every event.  It must be working in some capacity because no other program has sent wrestlers to such a wide array of colleges in the past decade.  They must be blessed with a great travel budget, but it looks like they only have one or two coaches on staff.  I have been told that Kendle teaches AP chemistry on top of coaching.

Summit is the other program that seems to be everywhere.  Pete and his staff are at GFC, Super 32, Cadet/Jr duals, and Fargo.  This past in-season they picked up their travel considerably.  What Pete and the staff have done has been incredible.  I hope we get to see him take over the Cleveland program one day.

As addressed in an earlier thread, I am still not buying the McCallie admin issue.  McCallie often shows up to a tournament with 8 or 9 coaches and leaves with 1 medalist.  I have been told that Yost doesn't teach and only coaches. What does the program expect the admin to do?  Father Ryan, Bradley, Signal Mt, DB, Brentwood, Wilson Central and many other programs are doing a fine job but seem to only focus on TN stuff.  Coach Winesburg seems fired up and ready to travel the country, but he doesn’t have the horses in the barn yet.

The state is certainly on the rise, but we need more than 4 programs to be committed to travel and year-round wrestling. Having clubs like YoungGuns and Minions will help kids from less committed programs travel and receive out-of-season coaching.  I think we will see TN produce college-ready talent in the next 10 years.  25 years from now they will be on the level of the Midwest. 

[texas23]

9 hours ago, BobCorker said:

Now they admittedly never wrestle anyone with a pulse during the season; I suspect this is to protect their brand.

LOL.....really?

[RMC]

Man....I go away for a day and you guys getting all feisty on here......

Can we have a quad the next few years with Cleveland and Baylor......versus my poor old Georgia schools....Camden County and Buford........

(and yes....I know Buford isn't poor......my kid went there....so don't get all fired up over that)

[cowcatcherII]

1 hour ago, texas23 said:

LOL.....really?

Why didn't they wrestle Baylor last year? 

[texas23]

41 minutes ago, cowcatcherII said:

Why didn't they wrestle Baylor last year? 

Why did they wrestle Father Ryan?  did they have a pulse?

 

[GruncleD]

13 hours ago, cobrakid8 said:

I said unlike coach Knox who has never coached anywhere else, Coach Kramer was a head coach and done well in Michigan. Maybe you need some reading comprehension classes. So he built a program, Knox didn’t he stepped into one and has done a great job building on the program he took over. 
 

I also know the foundation puts a lot of money into the program, maybe that’s how you can say Allan doesn’t give that money or write that check. Just like Nathan does but let’s pretend that also isn’t Allan Jones money. But no I have no clue how any of this works, I just have to have morons like you tell me it’s not what happens because god forbid anyone knows what goes on behind the curtain. Like the wizard of oz over here with you Clevelanders! 

Don't know Nathan, you must. Never seen a donation from him. You must stay up at night researching Allan's business associations. When I say other supports or donors, I mean those having nothing to do with Mr. Jones or his businesses or any connection to Mr. Jones. You are the Moron, and glad Coach Kramer done well in Michigan. Answer my question,  how many state championships in the 12 straight years, how many state placers, how many state finalist, how many state champions. I don not know, but I would think Cleveland's  last 6 year record in all these categories would come close or surpass all Wilson Central's last 12 years. Maybe not, but would be interesting to know. And I will bet that if Knox stays at Cleveland for 12 years or longer with continued success you will still say he didn't build a program.

 

[cowcatcherII]

53 minutes ago, GruncleD said:

Don't know Nathan, you must. Never seen a donation from him. You must stay up at night researching Allan's business associations. When I say other supports or donors, I mean those having nothing to do with Mr. Jones or his businesses or any connection to Mr. Jones. You are the Moron, and glad Coach Kramer done well in Michigan. Answer my question,  how many state championships in the 12 straight years, how many state placers, how many state finalist, how many state champions. I don not know, but I would think Cleveland's  last 6 year record in all these categories would come close or surpass all Wilson Central's last 12 years. Maybe not, but would be interesting to know. And I will bet that if Knox stays at Cleveland for 12 years or longer with continued success you will still say he didn't build a program.

 

Alright, consider this statement:

Joey Knox is the mastermind behind the plan that built Cleveland into a power. If Allan Jones had never donated a dollar to the program, Cleveland would still be the same team they are now, because Coach Knox and his assistants work harder and get their guys to work harder than everyone else in the state. 

I doubt Coach Knox himself would even agree with that statement. Again, I don't see Cobra, myself, or anyone on the board trying to discredit Cleveland for all of their accomplishments. They are the gold standard in my opinion, but to say they are where they are because they work harder than everyone else and Bradley has the same opportunities through AJ as Cleveland does is ludicrous. I mean think about Cleveland wrestling under Al Miller v. Cleveland since AJ became heavily involved financially... Would Coach Miller have had the program in the same position it is now if he had AJ's support back then? I suspect he would. 

I think the Clevelanders get so defensive because they think that when people cite AJ as a reason for their success, they think people are saying they haven't had to work hard to get to where they are. That is just not true, the Clevelanders have put in the work to get on top. All people are saying is that AJ's support has allowed the program to reach its peak when paired with good leaders like Knox. 

I would also encourage you to consider this... where would Cleveland be without AJ's support over the past 12 years...? A respectable program similar to how it was under Miller, but by no means the gold standard as it is today.