Top 10 Head Coaches Power Rankings

[texas23]

Seems like many of you think that money is the driver and not really the coaching.  Clearly, most any coach could take over a program and just put it on auto pilot.  However, in my observation, Cleveland made a strategic decision to start a kid club that ended up being named Higher Calling by Heath Eslinger.  That school and Alan Jones decided to hire Heath as the Head Coach and bring a method to how they could reload every year with a feeder program backed up with the kids club to help the Cleveland middle school.  It took time to put this strategy in place and start seeing results.  I think the plan was something like six years.  Did it take money, sure, but it took a plan too.  It took coaches to buy in and execute the strategy and the daily tactics of teaching kids.

Imagine where the Cleveland brain trust saw the blueprint for this.  All they had to do was look across town to see what was working.  It is not the money guys, it is the vision, with the execution.  Coach Phillips made this happen, Coach Yost made this happen and Bosken and Knox and even Coach Miller.  

The strategy does not work without the right decisions on who the coach is.  Knox deserves credit and so does Yost.  There is no auto pilot or cruise control on that ship.  Not over the time frame we have watched.  If it was one year and studs did not graduate, sure, but their run is beyond that, at least in my view.

Shoot, Soddy Daisy was a machine and somehow it got foul up and missed an oil change.  

 

Good thread discussion, just opinions being thrown around.  

 

[TotallynotLEO]

I'll add this.  Many schools don't even have a dedicated pace to practice in season.  And a feeder program? Lol

A feeder program needs a place to practice too. Those aren't available for free.  

If you want to run a summer program,  you need a place to practice.  Be it AAU or HS. 

Point is, having facilities is a major hurdle.  Heck, it's a road block for most places. If you look at the consistent programs across the state,  they have dedicated facilities.  Halls, PF, Cleveland,  BC... That's no coincidence.  In this day and age you have to wrestle year round and have a solid feeder program to be a top team. You can't wrestle year round without a place to do it.  Obviously that's only part of it.  You have to have consistent coaching,  a plan and a system in place. But let's not act like facilities and funding don't matter.  They do.  

I know of one HS team that had to roll out/up mats in a cafeteria to hold practice.  Every day.  Forget about a summer program or availability for youth to use it.  No amount of great  coaching will overcome that.  

Edited June 14, 2023 by TotallynotLEO

[oceansize42]

The school my son went to didn't have a dedicated practice room until his junior year (maybe senior, already forgotten). They rolled the mats up after every other practice and these weren't Dollamur light weight mats. The mats weighed hundreds of pounds.  Dad's ended up stepping in to be assistants because we couldn't keep any "professionals". No money for the coaches (it was so little it might as well be none).  The team was mostly country boys that wrestled in season and played other sports when the season ended.  That isn't going to change either, the program will in all likelihood simply exist year to year and get by. You know what? I loved it. Loved almost every second of it. Would it have been nice to win a few more duals that mattered and to gather wide spread recognition across the state? Sure, but those thoughts only lasted a few brief moments and then our team was the greatest team on planet earth. Why?  Because I knew the parents, I knew the kids, and there was a camaraderie that went beyond wins and losses.  I loved that team as much, and maybe more, as any parent anywhere in Tennessee. I'm going to be brutally honest, high school ends, life starts (granted college is still fun), and nobody gives a f#ck where you wrestled.  How many kids that wrestle in college from TN taste success?  All that matters is did wrestling teach your kid and those kids around you the life lessons they needed. Although sometimes I think I got more life lessons than my kid.  You don't need money or even great success to learn those lessons. What teams like Cleveland, Summit, Wilson Central, PF, Soddy, DB, Signal, Greeneville, etc have done is impressive and it's awesome some kids get to reap the rewards of their work within the format of team sports.  The rest can aspire but its hard for "small market" teams to keep coaches and high end talent with what is effectively zero money, that's ok.

As far as OP's topic I'm not schooled enough in TN wrestling history to comment about GOAT coaches as I only know the last decade in any detail.

 

Edited June 14, 2023 by oceansize42

[Ummmno]

Nobody is questioning Cleveland's greatness. Nobody is questioning their willingness to wrestle anywhere. Nobody is questioning they have the best coaching staff top to bottom. Nobody is questioning their work ethic. 

 

All anybody is saying is that money plays a part in all of those points. 

[Mason422]

On 6/12/2023 at 3:24 PM, cobrakid8 said:

Knox is a good coach, but you could take about 30 coaches in TN right now that could step into that situation and be very very successful. They have one of the top kids programs not just in the state but in the SE as a whole and yes Knox has a lot to do with that, but so does about 50 other things like Bosken, Jones and his support. Just as I said with Baylor fits here also, when you have the time, the money and the dedication that program has it leads to what it has led to. I mean you do know how many state titles they won before Knox got there? I mean the coach sitting at McCallie who everyone says is doing nothing with that program won a state or 2 title at Cleveland. Kramer would have that place doing the same thing just like many other coaches across the state could. He's done a great job with the program, I will say that.

The way you look at stuff is just ridiculous sometimes.  You said that anyone could step in that position and have success and you are probably right for a couple of years, but most of the coaches wouldn’t continue to develop the younger guys, the other coaches don’t travel any where near the amount of time that Knox does. He and his staff are responsible for continuing to build and improve the program. I am in no way a Cleveland homer, heck I coached at Greeneville for the last 4-5 years but I respect the amount of work and time that they put into Cleveland. No amount of money can duplicate their passion and work ethic. 
 

just don’t understand why people like you constantly down play what Cleveland has accomplished. They are excellent coaches and put their heart and soul into the program 12 months a year. 
 

show me another team that works that hard and they will be successful too.  Would love to meet you one day. Or at least know who you are. Anyways behind a user name. 
 

Sid Mason

[texas23]

1 hour ago, Ummmno said:

Nobody is questioning Cleveland's greatness. Nobody is questioning their willingness to wrestle anywhere. Nobody is questioning they have the best coaching staff top to bottom. Nobody is questioning their work ethic. 

 

All anybody is saying is that money plays a part in all of those points. 

Someone actually did question their willingness to wrestle anywhere,   Someone actually did question the work ethic as well, saying Knox was not engaged at the kid clubs, tournaments, etc. 

 

 

[Mason422]

On 6/12/2023 at 8:58 PM, coachinhoops said:

Reading this post is like watching someone trying to tell the writer of a book what the book was about... I think Josh Bosken knows more about what goes on on Cleveland wrestling than anyone else here posting.

Facts but all of these guys think they know better.  Just jealous that they aren’t good enough to compete with Cleveland. I have coached a long time and I 100% respect their work and dedication. Now when we wrestle their kids we want to beat them bad but how can we hate on them for putting in the work. 
 

My son was very successful in HS and I am a retired military guy that coaches at Greeneville.  We don’t have the money that Cleveland has, I don’t make the money that a lot of the top talent does, but hard work and a commitment to the sport will overcome a nice facility and a fancy bus.  Just my thoughts. 
 

Sid Mason

[cowcatcherII]

15 minutes ago, Mason422 said:

Facts but all of these guys think they know better.  Just jealous that they aren’t good enough to compete with Cleveland. I have coached a long time and I 100% respect their work and dedication. Now when we wrestle their kids we want to beat them bad but how can we hate on them for putting in the work. 
 

My son was very successful in HS and I am a retired military guy that coaches at Greeneville.  We don’t have the money that Cleveland has, I don’t make the money that a lot of the top talent does, but hard work and a commitment to the sport will overcome a nice facility and a fancy bus.  Just my thoughts. 
 

Sid Mason

Sid, 

I loved watching your son wrestle in HS and can't wait to follow him in college! Do you expect him to redshirt next year or will he have a chance to break into the lineup immediately? We will be pulling for him to represent TN!

Someone posted this on a thread a few months ago and would love to get your thoughts on this. If you take an average kid that is willing to work hard and put him in an average public school do you think that same kid would be just as good if you put him in a program with built in monetary advantages like Cleveland or Baylor? 

I think that's the point people are trying to make. I agree that anyone who claims Cleveland doesn't work hard is ill-informed, but the advantages to going to a school like Cleveland exist due to money. All that to say, there are outliers such as your son where you have parents that are invested and willing to make personal sacrifices to pay for outside coaching/training, but those are the outliers, in my opinion. 

Thanks for sharing. I always look forward to your posts as they are always super insightful!

[cobrakid8]

1 hour ago, Mason422 said:

The way you look at stuff is just ridiculous sometimes.  You said that anyone could step in that position and have success and you are probably right for a couple of years, but most of the coaches wouldn’t continue to develop the younger guys, the other coaches don’t travel any where near the amount of time that Knox does. He and his staff are responsible for continuing to build and improve the program. I am in no way a Cleveland homer, heck I coached at Greeneville for the last 4-5 years but I respect the amount of work and time that they put into Cleveland. No amount of money can duplicate their passion and work ethic. 
 

just don’t understand why people like you constantly down play what Cleveland has accomplished. They are excellent coaches and put their heart and soul into the program 12 months a year. 
 

show me another team that works that hard and they will be successful too.  Would love to meet you one day. Or at least know who you are. Anyways behind a user name. 
 

Sid Mason

With what they have going yes a ton of coaches could continue with that process, do you really think no other coaches put 24/7/365 into their programs? You are stupid if you think just hard work has gotten them where they are. Sorry that is just stupid! I've known hundreds of coaches since I've been in this sport in TN and GA since mid 90's. Coached with MANY of them also and sat on 2 state title teams helping. If the coach that took Knox's place kept some of the same youth coaches that helps feed that program and put 100% effort into the program they would be just as accomplished as Knox has been. Again, we keep hearing how Yost has sucked at McCallie yet he won 3 straight state titles before leaving Cleveland. So pray tell me how that happened if it was all Joey Knox that has built that program? I know plenty of coaches that are traveling with their wrestlers right now, Ulric has been all over with the Soddy kids, I know Kramer has fight nights throughout the summer that doesn't count his work pretty much everyday with his kids youth and high school. I know plenty of other coaches across the state that do the same, across Chattanooga that do that same thing. Not a ton of coaches like there were in the old days that did coaching in football and wrestling and maybe another sport, most coaches that have success have made it a full time job and PLENTY of them could step in and take Knox place.

 

Don't care if you agree or not and it doesn't take away their accomplishments, what would take away is everyone else by saying only he works hard enough to accomplish what he has at Cleveland and so I guess no one else works that hard and not even see the money and effort put into the program by those that aren't sitting on the mats during a match have helped make that happen!

[noonesfool]

4 hours ago, oceansize42 said:

The school my son went to didn't have a dedicated practice room until his junior year (maybe senior, already forgotten). They rolled the mats up after every other practice and these weren't Dollamur light weight mats. The mats weighed hundreds of pounds.  Dad's ended up stepping in to be assistants because we couldn't keep any "professionals". No money for the coaches (it was so little it might as well be none).  The team was mostly country boys that wrestled in season and played other sports when the season ended.  That isn't going to change either, the program will in all likelihood simply exist year to year and get by. You know what? I loved it. Loved almost every second of it. Would it have been nice to win a few more duals that mattered and to gather wide spread recognition across the state? Sure, but those thoughts only lasted a few brief moments and then our team was the greatest team on planet earth. Why?  Because I knew the parents, I knew the kids, and there was a camaraderie that went beyond wins and losses.  I loved that team as much, and maybe more, as any parent anywhere in Tennessee. I'm going to be brutally honest, high school ends, life starts (granted college is still fun), and nobody gives a f#ck where you wrestled.  How many kids that wrestle in college from TN taste success?  All that matters is did wrestling teach your kid and those kids around you the life lessons they needed. Although sometimes I think I got more life lessons than my kid.  You don't need money or even great success to learn those lessons. What teams like Cleveland, Summit, Wilson Central, PF, Soddy, DB, Signal, Greeneville, etc have done is impressive and it's awesome some kids get to reap the rewards of their work within the format of team sports.  The rest can aspire but its hard for "small market" teams to keep coaches and high end talent with what is effectively zero money, that's ok.

As far as OP's topic I'm not schooled enough in TN wrestling history to comment about GOAT coaches as I only know the last decade in any detail.

 

Well said.

[cobrakid8]

31 minutes ago, cowcatcherII said:

Sid, 

I loved watching your son wrestle in HS and can't wait to follow him in college! Do you expect him to redshirt next year or will he have a chance to break into the lineup immediately? We will be pulling for him to represent TN!

Someone posted this on a thread a few months ago and would love to get your thoughts on this. If you take an average kid that is willing to work hard and put him in an average public school do you think that same kid would be just as good if you put him in a program with built in monetary advantages like Cleveland or Baylor? 

I think that's the point people are trying to make. I agree that anyone who claims Cleveland doesn't work hard is ill-informed, but the advantages to going to a school like Cleveland exist due to money. All that to say, there are outliers such as your son where you have parents that are invested and willing to make personal sacrifices to pay for outside coaching/training, but those are the outliers, in my opinion. 

Thanks for sharing. I always look forward to your posts as they are always super insightful!

The thing is with all those fighting back is I never said they weren't working hard and putting the effort in. But the same idiots saying that pretty much are saying that no one else is putting in that same hard work and effort and thus are not having the same accomplishments. That is BS and wrong on so many levels. Been with this sport since mid 90's and just with the kids coaches have become specialized and so yeah they can put more time into their program because they aren't sitting during the summer with their football players and the fall, more now are completely doing wrestling coaching and there are plenty of wrestling coaches that spend almost every waking second with their programs trying to build a winner. Heck you can win Ben Smith's statement to see that he wanted to actually spend time with his family which he wasn't getting with coaching. There are plenty of coaches out there that don't have the same resources trying to do more with less and busting their rears to build the best team they can. 

[cobrakid8]

1 hour ago, Mason422 said:

Facts but all of these guys think they know better.  Just jealous that they aren’t good enough to compete with Cleveland. I have coached a long time and I 100% respect their work and dedication. Now when we wrestle their kids we want to beat them bad but how can we hate on them for putting in the work. 
 

My son was very successful in HS and I am a retired military guy that coaches at Greeneville.  We don’t have the money that Cleveland has, I don’t make the money that a lot of the top talent does, but hard work and a commitment to the sport will overcome a nice facility and a fancy bus.  Just my thoughts. 
 

Sid Mason

and your son has done an amazing job and I'm sure will continue to do so, but how many state titles did that great Greeneville team win again with those studs that have been on it? There has been some really great wrestlers come through the state without a full team, Tim Voiles did it as the ONLY kid on his team, the commitment was him traveling to Soddy Daisy and practicing with that team, which was 30 mins at least each day away just to practice. You don't have to have the money Cleveland does to be successful, but for a dynasty you darn best have it to be able to continue it.

 

As far as you posting above and wanting to meet and me hiding behind a screen name, you have said that before and I've posted my name, so I guess I need to continue to post it just for you. It is Doug Benton a wrestler who graduated in 1999 from Soddy Daisy High. Write it down because I do not want to have to continue posting it. Never have hid behind my screen name and I would say the same thing to Knox or you about they have done and amazing job at Cleveland, but money has helped them get to where they are and helped start that youth program and get it rolling like it is and money still helps provide as there aren't many schools that literally have their own place to wrestle at, especially their own entire gym. Also by the way, I have had a child in the higher calling program, he doesn't have my last name but I am the entire reason he went to higher calling and not Bradley Pride where his mother went to high school.

 

Good luck to your son and congrats Cleveland for all you have accomplished!