TSSAA to start fining schools for fan ejections

[tradertwo]

2 hours ago, Augustus said:

We are just going to have to agree to disagree.

And I'm going to have to agree with you. You can deter some of it, but to even use the word "prevent" is asinine. Basically punishing an entity under their control for the actions of one under neither's control just because they can't punish the offender.

[cbg]

Let me tell everyone how this is going to go down.  Someone that has zero affiliation with either team is going to show up to a game.  That individual will be razing the official and giving them the business while keeping all language and gestures clean.  Without any warning some official with rabbit ears will get embarrassed and toss the said individual out of the facility without even a verbal warning to back off. At that time the home school will be fined by the TSSAA.  The next step is that the home school will file legal proceedings against the TSSAA and it will cost them nothing because one of the school parents is the managing partner at a major blue blood law firm.  During the legal proceedings it will be proven by a physician that the individual that was thrown out of the game had severe mental issues and the school had no way of knowing or preventing a problem.  It will also be proven that the official has a quick temper and been terminated from several jobs and while not felonies they have an arrest record that’s four mile long.  In the above mentioned instance this will cost the TSSAA a lot of money and absolutely nothing will be accomplished. In closing I will leave you with this; if I show up at the state basketball tournament on the campus of MTSU and get tossed out of a game who is the TSSAA going to fine?  This may be the most asinine rule that the TSSAA has ever implemented. Do they not ever consult with their average at best legal counsel before making rules?

[ILB1999]

11 hours ago, Augustus said:

We are just going to have to agree to disagree.

spoken like someone who'd rather deal with things after the fact.  

[ILB1999]

42 minutes ago, cbg said:

Let me tell everyone how this is going to go down.  Someone that has zero affiliation with either team is going to show up to a game.  That individual will be razing the official and giving them the business while keeping all language and gestures clean.  Without any warning some official with rabbit ears will get embarrassed and toss the said individual out of the facility without even a verbal warning to back off. At that time the home school will be fined by the TSSAA.  The next step is that the home school will file legal proceedings against the TSSAA and it will cost them nothing because one of the school parents is the managing partner at a major blue blood law firm.  During the legal proceedings it will be proven by a physician that the individual that was thrown out of the game had severe mental issues and the school had no way of knowing or preventing a problem.  It will also be proven that the official has a quick temper and been terminated from several jobs and while not felonies they have an arrest record that’s four mile long.  In the above mentioned instance this will cost the TSSAA a lot of money and absolutely nothing will be accomplished. In closing I will leave you with this; if I show up at the state basketball tournament on the campus of MTSU and get tossed out of a game who is the TSSAA going to fine?  This may be the most asinine rule that the TSSAA has ever implemented. Do they not ever consult with their average at best legal counsel before making rules?

you're very imaginative.

[cbg]

42 minutes ago, ILB1999 said:

you're very imaginative.

As a leader (TSSAA) you must anticipate all situations.  The TSSAA has always been reactive and never proactive to every situation.  Please keep in mind that Brentwood Academy placed the TSSAA in a precarious financial position and if the TSSAA were not a “State Actor” and had they been a private business they more than likely would have been forced to close their doors or file bankruptcy. As an entrepreneur it has been my experience that the best way to save money is to stay as far away from legal proceedings as possible.  Typically the only one that wins when both sides retain legal services is the attorneys. In my narrative the only one paying for legal fees is the TSSAA as the school is being provided with “FREE” legal services.  When you have the very best attorneys charging $500.00+ per hour is doesn’t take long for the cash register to run out of money.

Edited July 28, 2023 by cbg

[BDURHAM]

52 minutes ago, cbg said:

As a leader (TSSAA) you must anticipate all situations.  The TSSAA has always been reactive and never proactive to every situation.  Please keep in mind that Brentwood Academy placed the TSSAA in a precarious financial position and if the TSSAA were not a “State Actor” and had they been a private business they more than likely would have been forced to close their doors or file bankruptcy. As an entrepreneur it has been my experience that the best way to save money is to stay as far away from legal proceedings as possible.  Typically the only one that wins when both sides retain legal services is the attorneys. In my narrative the only one paying for legal fees is the TSSAA as the school is being provided with “FREE” legal services.  When you have the very best attorneys charging $500.00+ per hour is doesn’t take long for the cash register to run out of money.

Certainly you agree that fan interference at high school games has become a problem. What should be the penalty?

And do you really think a TSSAA member school will take the TSSAA to court to dispute a financial penalty or any decision?

I assume that you are not a lawyer, and neither am I, yet I do not think a judge should hear the case. Regardless of what I think, I realize we live in a litigious culture.

The most likely member to sue the TSSAA and put the TSSAA in jeopardy of financial solvency is a private school such as Brentwood Academy, right? Wouldn't you agree that a private school could justify the mounting legal expenses of a court trial better than a public school could rationalize a legal battle? And I would actually like to know if Brentwood Academy's legal fees were donated. Do you know how much Brentwood Academy had to pay for legal expenses? 

My conjecture is that any private school may have put itself in financial jeopardy spending what the legal fees were in the BA vs TSSAA lawsuit. 

Personally, as an entrepreneur and citizen, I would question any public school's judgement if the school sued the TSSAA, and if I was an alumnus of a private secondary school who sued the TSSAA, I would ask serious questions. 

One last point, wouldn't we all agree a better solution would be to go through the process of working to change the TSSAA by-laws and rulings through the proper process -- instead of suing the TSSAA? All members of the TSSAA have representation on the Legislative Council and Board of Control. Why don't we stay out of court and try to work together to make educational athletics better?

 

 

[Indian]

It would stink for the family but a year long ban from any school sporting events in the TSSAA for those ejected would be better than fining the school. Violators would be subject to arrest for trespassing. 

[cbg]

2 hours ago, BDURHAM said:

Certainly you agree that fan interference at high school games has become a problem. What should be the penalty?

And do you really think a TSSAA member school will take the TSSAA to court to dispute a financial penalty or any decision?

I assume that you are not a lawyer, and neither am I, yet I do not think a judge should hear the case. Regardless of what I think, I realize we live in a litigious culture.

The most likely member to sue the TSSAA and put the TSSAA in jeopardy of financial solvency is a private school such as Brentwood Academy, right? Wouldn't you agree that a private school could justify the mounting legal expenses of a court trial better than a public school could rationalize a legal battle? And I would actually like to know if Brentwood Academy's legal fees were donated. Do you know how much Brentwood Academy had to pay for legal expenses? 

My conjecture is that any private school may have put itself in financial jeopardy spending what the legal fees were in the BA vs TSSAA lawsuit. 

Personally, as an entrepreneur and citizen, I would question any public school's judgement if the school sued the TSSAA, and if I was an alumnus of a private secondary school who sued the TSSAA, I would ask serious questions. 

One last point, wouldn't we all agree a better solution would be to go through the process of working to change the TSSAA by-laws and rulings through the proper process -- instead of suing the TSSAA? All members of the TSSAA have representation on the Legislative Council and Board of Control. Why don't we stay out of court and try to work together to make educational athletics better?

 

 

I completely agree with most everything that you have stated.  The problem is that the TSSAA has educators with little if any practical business experience running a multimillion dollar business.  Even the Board of Control has very little if any business experience.  This all leads to most of the problems that the TSSAA encounters. Yes, the bylaws should be rewritten to mirror things that are happening in today’s world.  If I were in charge of rewriting the bylaws I would get coaches, not administrators that represent the entire State of Tennessee and “LISTEN” to what they have to say.  I am talking about rural, inner city, affluent and blue collar areas and schools.  They are all different but they must come together and reach a consensus to help the overall being of the organization.  

Edited July 28, 2023 by cbg

[BDURHAM]

20 minutes ago, cbg said:

I completely agree with most everything that you have stated.  The problem is that the TSSAA has educators with little if any practical business experience running a multimillion dollar business.  Even the Board of Control has very little if any business experience.  This all leads to most of the problems that the TSSAA encounters. Yes, the bylaws should be rewritten to mirror things that are happening in today’s world.  If I were in charge of rewriting the bylaws I would get coaches, not administrators that represent the entire State of Tennessee and “LISTEN” to what they have to say.  I am talking about rural, inner city, affluent and blue collar areas and schools.  They are all different but they must come together and reach a consensus to help the overall being of the organization.  

I agree with you regarding coaches having more direct input. The coaches of particular sports like to have their own associations, and they knock on the door for input. The administrators should be listening to their coaches.

There are major challenges for organizations such as the TSSAA and NCAA to keep up with the changing landscape of athletics, to govern a very diverse membership, and to actually "police" and enforce the rules. There is a lack of staff and money to fund the watchdogs.

The one thing that most coaches agree on is that they do not like the TSSAA; therefore, the dialogue is often adversarial from the onset. The issue at hand is fan (parent) interference at games. I think coaches, administrators and the TSSAA Board and staff are almost in universal agreement to stop the fan interference.

One would think that the administrators and coaches could control fan interference on their own fields and courts, right? What has led to parents getting on the field of play and accosting referees? 

Oh, was it a Brentwood Academy parent that brought this issue to the table? Calling Lee Barfield....and the BA legal team...

Edited July 28, 2023 by BDURHAM

[tradertwo]

4 hours ago, Indian said:

It would stink for the family but a year long ban from any school sporting events in the TSSAA for those ejected would be better than fining the school. Violators would be subject to arrest for trespassing. 

There you go Indian... I thought that you would've been around long enough to know better than to get into the middle of a good 'ol spirited disagreement and (of all things) use good judgement and old fashioned common sense. Lots of good points from both sides are now worthless because you have up and made this as simple as holding the one responsible accountable for his/her actions, and (of all the gall) even suggesting that those who aren't responsible be let off scott free. Really disappointed in you. 

[WaCoJaCo]

The TSSAA will probably start sending people to games to run out on the field just to collect fines. 

[RocketHouse]

42 minutes ago, tradertwo said:

as holding the one responsible accountable for his/her actions, and (of all the gall) even suggesting that those who aren't responsible be let off scott free. Really disappointed in you. 

Holding an individual accountable for his/ her own actions- that is a radical concept. Too much simplicity.