Future of Dobyns Bennett Football

[bounder]

Sorry I think just the opposite, the players are there, they either aren't being "coached up" or they haven't been made to want to play football. 

[Swipes]

3 hours ago, EastTNfootballFan111 said:

I think the tri-cities area has less athletes than Knox, Chattanooga and Mid-state. When you’re in 6A, you have to compete with some of the best. I think it’s a disadvantage, in particular for rural 6A or suburban communities like DB/Johnson City. 

I don't believe that one bit or Greeneville or Betsy wouldn't have the state title they do. (I know it's 4a but some of those Greeneville and Betsy team would have went toe to toe with Oakland and Maryville especially the 2018 Greeneville team that had kids go to UT, VA, Furman, Marshall, Army, Wake Forest and Knoxville media believes so too having them ranked the 4th best team ever to come out of this area in the TSSAA play-off era.  Also had the 2010 Greeneville team ranked #15 and the 2017 team ranked #17.  Betsy's 2020 team came in at #20).  It comes down to starting from the ground up in Pee-wee leagues and coaching kids up like i've mentioned many times now.  Letting a good coach run his program that way and DB and SH could compete with the athletes they have in both Hall ways.  You have 2,503 students at DB and 2,380 students at SH so you can't say there shouldn't be just as many athletes at those schools when both are in the top 5 largest schools in Tennessee.

[BarneySox2007]

Speaking of DB, I just ran in to Coach Ted Wilson at Walmart in Alcoa just a few minutes ago. Believe it or not he had on a Dobyns Bennett jacket. I actually spent a couple hours with him out at his house last week and he told me a lot of great things and how blessed he was to have taken that job and how well everyone treated him. He told me he was looking for the paint machine to line the field off when he was up there and he was trying to find out where it was and the superintendent came by and told him you don't do that job here we've got somebody else that does that for you. He also told me when he applied for that job they gave him a figure and he told them that was only $3,000 more than he was making at Maryville and he didn't think he could move his family up there for that and a couple hours later they called back and added another 10,000 and he took the job. He had a hip replacement and they had to go in two times after because it didn't go well but he is out and doing well for a man that's 89 or 90 year old.

[EastTNfootballFan111]

2 hours ago, Swipes said:

I don't believe that one bit or Greeneville or Betsy wouldn't have the state title they do. (I know it's 4a but some of those Greeneville and Betsy team would have went toe to toe with Oakland and Maryville especially the 2018 Greeneville team that had kids go to UT, VA, Furman, Marshall, Army, Wake Forest and Knoxville media believes so too having them ranked the 4th best team ever to come out of this area in the TSSAA play-off era.  Also had the 2010 Greeneville team ranked #15 and the 2017 team ranked #17.  Betsy's 2020 team came in at #20).  It comes down to starting from the ground up in Pee-wee leagues and coaching kids up like i've mentioned many times now.  Letting a good coach run his program that way and DB and SH could compete with the athletes they have in both Hall ways.  You have 2,503 students at DB and 2,380 students at SH so you can't say there shouldn't be just as many athletes at those schools when both are in the top 5 largest schools in Tennessee.

I’ve watched TN football a long time. I think your more accurate when mention 5/7 years ago. However, the population has changed. Not sure the last time a major D1 football player has come out of our region (east of Knoxville). I played against DB 20 years ago, those teams were far more talented than the teams today. If I remember correctly there were 3 D1 athletes on the team I played against that went to ACC schools.  No team east of Knoxville could compete with Oakland, Knox West, CPA etc…..it’s not a bad thing. Great young men, that will be great leaders in the community etc…they’re just not D1 football players. The size is also a pretty irrelevant measure, look at Alcoa. You either have to be a large population center or have folks to move to play at your school to be elite. The exception can be the smaller city schools that pull from 10k student county systems, but only compete in 3A, 4A etc..

[Swipes]

22 hours ago, EastTNfootballFan111 said:

I’ve watched TN football a long time. I think your more accurate when mention 5/7 years ago. However, the population has changed. Not sure the last time a major D1 football player has come out of our region (east of Knoxville). I played against DB 20 years ago, those teams were far more talented than the teams today. If I remember correctly there were 3 D1 athletes on the team I played against that went to ACC schools.  No team east of Knoxville could compete with Oakland, Knox West, CPA etc…..it’s not a bad thing. Great young men, that will be great leaders in the community etc…they’re just not D1 football players. The size is also a pretty irrelevant measure, look at Alcoa. You either have to be a large population center or have folks to move to play at your school to be elite. The exception can be the smaller city schools that pull from 10k student county systems, but only compete in 3A, 4A etc..

Have you every thought that maybe D1 athletes can be built if they are in the right program from the ground up? (Not saying genetics doesn't have a role).  I can agree DB was better 20 years ago but maybe thats because those kids had bought into the program and the leagues and things have changed when it comes to the DB program than it was 20 years ago sorta like how the priorities have changed at Greeneville and Betsy in 20 years too but in the opposite direction.  The current starting TE at Wake Forest is from Greeneville and wouldn't think he would be a D1 TE but worked his tail off from when he was little and the same goes for names like Ballard, Everhart, Youngblood, Albright, Gillespie, Dabbs, Young, etc.  Over the last 10 years Greeneville has sent 20 kids to 16 different D1 Programs (https://twitter.com/GreeneDevilsFB/status/1737926988495511735/photo/1).  

I would agree with the Oakland Comment over the past 5 years but not Knox West (Who lost to Alcoa 24-7 a team Greeneville was tied with 7 to7 almost at half.  West also beat AC 8-7 when Greeneville beat them 28-17).  CPA also was beat by Pearl Cohn this past year and Upperman was an inch away from tying that game in the 4th to force overtime who beat Greeneville by 7.  So to say No team east of Knoxville could compete against Knox West or CPA is not factual at all.  Yes, Alcoa is the anomaly when it comes to student population but not the rule (Alcoa also has the program set up the way i have talked about multiple times that DB needed to do and still loss to Maryville last year).  I don't agree with "You either have to be a large population center or have folks to move to play at your school to be elite." Give me a student population of 2,500 students, a great coaching staff, and free will to run the program from the pee-wee league up and i can guarantee you I would have that team competing for a championship

Edited December 23, 2023 by Swipes

[WaCoJaCo]

30 minutes ago, Swipes said:

Have you every thought that maybe D1 athletes can be built if they are in the right program from the ground up? (Not saying genetics doesn't have a role).  I can agree DB was better 20 years ago but maybe thats because those kids had bought into the program and the leagues and things have changed when it comes to the DB program than it was 20 years ago sorta like how the priorities have changed at Greeneville and Betsy in 20 years too but in the opposite direction.  The current starting TE at Wake Forest is from Greeneville and wouldn't think he would be a D1 TE but worked his tail off from when he was little and the same goes for names like Ballard, Everhart, Youngblood, Albright, Gillespie, Dabbs, Young, etc.  Over the last 10 years Greeneville has sent kids to 16 different D1 Programs (https://twitter.com/GreeneDevilsFB/status/1737926988495511735/photo/1).  

I would agree with the Oakland Comment over the past 5 years but not Knox West (Who lost to Alcoa 24-7 a team Greeneville was tied with 7 to7 almost at half.  West also beat AC 8-7 when Greeneville beat them 28-17).  CPA also was beat by Pearl Cohn this past year and Upperman was an inch away from tying that game in the 4th to force overtime who beat Greeneville by 7.  So to say No team east of Knoxville could compete against Knox West or CPA is not factual at all.  Yes, Alcoa is the anomaly when it comes to student population but not the rule (Alcoa also has the program set up the way i have talked about multiple times that DB needed to do and still loss to Maryville last year).  I don't agree with "You either have to be a large population center or have folks to move to play at your school to be elite." Give me a student population of 2,500 students, a great coaching staff, and free will to run the program from the pee-wee league up and i can guarantee you I would have that team competing for a championship

Swipes everything you say here is 100% correct. DB was better "as a program" 20 years ago. The little league and middle schools had way better coaching. But it wasn't by design, it was by chance. All those good coaches are long gone now. Several years ago there was a lot of talk about revamping the coaching in the lower leagues and get everybody on the same page. It never happened. Right now, the situation is far worse than it ever has been. I think the middle schools have won less than 5 games between the two of them in the past two years. And two of those wins were against each other.  The program is rotten from the top down. Coaches are arrogant and lazy. To fix it you would have to completely clean house and bring in a totally new staff. That will never happen because the inmates are running the asylum. It's not like they're just going to quit. They've got it made. Play a weak schedule, win 6 or 7 games a year, that's enough to keep the fans at bay. And as for the fans, you have to understand the mindset of the people in Kingsport. As long as they have something to brag about or get excited about, they're happy. Be it the band, or the upper deck and fancy stadium lights, It's all smoke and mirrors in Kingsport. 

[EastTNfootballFan111]

2 hours ago, Swipes said:

Have you every thought that maybe D1 athletes can be built if they are in the right program from the ground up? (Not saying genetics doesn't have a role).  I can agree DB was better 20 years ago but maybe thats because those kids had bought into the program and the leagues and things have changed when it comes to the DB program than it was 20 years ago sorta like how the priorities have changed at Greeneville and Betsy in 20 years too but in the opposite direction.  The current starting TE at Wake Forest is from Greeneville and wouldn't think he would be a D1 TE but worked his tail off from when he was little and the same goes for names like Ballard, Everhart, Youngblood, Albright, Gillespie, Dabbs, Young, etc.  Over the last 10 years Greeneville has sent 20 kids to 16 different D1 Programs (https://twitter.com/GreeneDevilsFB/status/1737926988495511735/photo/1).  

I would agree with the Oakland Comment over the past 5 years but not Knox West (Who lost to Alcoa 24-7 a team Greeneville was tied with 7 to7 almost at half.  West also beat AC 8-7 when Greeneville beat them 28-17).  CPA also was beat by Pearl Cohn this past year and Upperman was an inch away from tying that game in the 4th to force overtime who beat Greeneville by 7.  So to say No team east of Knoxville could compete against Knox West or CPA is not factual at all.  Yes, Alcoa is the anomaly when it comes to student population but not the rule (Alcoa also has the program set up the way i have talked about multiple times that DB needed to do and still loss to Maryville last year).  I don't agree with "You either have to be a large population center or have folks to move to play at your school to be elite." Give me a student population of 2,500 students, a great coaching staff, and free will to run the program from the pee-wee league up and i can guarantee you I would have that team competing for a championship

I don’t think you grow D1 athletes, they’re mostly born that way. In particular, football and basketball. Size and length cannot be changed, speed can be improved, but there has to be some natural talent. I looked back, even those great teams didn’t make it state championship. DB hasn’t won a state title since 1964, and Kingsport is one of the most well funded systems in the state. This tells you that unless you have a population change from growth or relocation it’s not going to change. They’re a great program, most people would love to have their records and support. Enjoy the Friday nights and support them. Just don’t place unrealistic expectations on them or coaches. It’s high school football, it’s supposed to be fun. 

[EastTNfootballFan111]

1 hour ago, WaCoJaCo said:

Swipes everything you say here is 100% correct. DB was better "as a program" 20 years ago. The little league and middle schools had way better coaching. But it wasn't by design, it was by chance. All those good coaches are long gone now. Several years ago there was a lot of talk about revamping the coaching in the lower leagues and get everybody on the same page. It never happened. Right now, the situation is far worse than it ever has been. I think the middle schools have won less than 5 games between the two of them in the past two years. And two of those wins were against each other.  The program is rotten from the top down. Coaches are arrogant and lazy. To fix it you would have to completely clean house and bring in a totally new staff. That will never happen because the inmates are running the asylum. It's not like they're just going to quit. They've got it made. Play a weak schedule, win 6 or 7 games a year, that's enough to keep the fans at bay. And as for the fans, you have to understand the mindset of the people in Kingsport. As long as they have something to brag about or get excited about, they're happy. Be it the band, or the upper deck and fancy stadium lights, It's all smoke and mirrors in Kingsport. 

I remember reading your posts when I played football over 20 years ago! Always witty and insightful. Glad to know you’re still engaged in high school football! 

[Swipes]

27 minutes ago, EastTNfootballFan111 said:

I don’t think you grow D1 athletes, they’re mostly born that way. In particular, football and basketball. Size and length cannot be changed, speed can be improved, but there has to be some natural talent. I looked back, even those great teams didn’t make it state championship. DB hasn’t won a state title since 1964, and Kingsport is one of the most well funded systems in the state. This tells you that unless you have a population change from growth or relocation it’s not going to change. They’re a great program, most people would love to have their records and support. Enjoy the Friday nights and support them. Just don’t place unrealistic expectations on them or coaches. It’s high school football, it’s supposed to be fun. 

I guess we have a difference of opinion since i've seen many kids bust their tail that normally would have been a d3 or d2 player (Like their parents or their parents didn't even play in college) that play D1 football.  Size, Strength, and Speed. can all be made better because once again I've seen what a good nutrition program, weight program, and speed program have done for athletes.  Well funded and letting a Coach run the program the same way Maryville and Alcoa runs their programs are two different things. DB hasn't had championship level coaching in the TSSAA play-off era.  DB is a good program not a Great one and a lot of those wins have been beating up NE Tennessee teams over the decades.  See we definitely have different views because setting a Championship expectation on a school the size of DB isn't unrealistic. (If your coach doesn't have those expectations then he needs to be fired yesterday)  That's the problem with DB they are ok with being Ok like Waco has said for years now.  Go ask those players at Greeneville or Betsy if winning championships is fun and how much work and sacrifice they have put in since kids to get to that point.....and then go ask a DB player and I bet you get a different answer on what is fun.  Different Culture's breed different mentalities 

Edited December 23, 2023 by Swipes

[WaCoJaCo]

5 hours ago, Swipes said:

I guess we have a difference of opinion since i've seen many kids bust their tail that normally would have been a d3 or d2 player (Like their parents or their parents didn't even play in college) that play D1 football.  Size, Strength, and Speed. can all be made better because once again I've seen what a good nutrition program, weight program, and speed program have done for athletes.  Well funded and letting a Coach run the program the same way Maryville and Alcoa runs their programs are two different things. DB hasn't had championship level coaching in the TSSAA play-off era.  DB is a good program not a Great one and a lot of those wins have been beating up NE Tennessee teams over the decades.  See we definitely have different views because setting a Championship expectation on a school the size of DB isn't unrealistic. (If your coach doesn't have those expectations then he needs to be fired yesterday)  That's the problem with DB they are ok with being Ok like Waco has said for years now.  Go ask those players at Greeneville or Betsy if winning championships is fun and how much work and sacrifice they have put in since kids to get to that point.....and then go ask a DB player and I bet you get a different answer on what is fun.  Different Culture's breed different mentalities 

LOL, we could talk about this for weeks. I was just sitting here thinking about the lost opportunities DB has had in the past years. If DB had taken care of business those opportunities would be positive, and we wouldn't even be having these conversations. People would have a lot more respect for the program. Losing in the semifinals in '98, 2000, and 2002, by a touchdown in all three games. That was against Oakland, Red Bank and Riverdale. The loss to Oakland & Red Bank was due to stupid play calling, the loss to Riverdale was due to turnovers. As I recall all three of those teams went on to easily win the title game the next week. Then there was the year that DB came into the playoffs undefeated and ranked #1 in the state. Lost to a 5-5 William Blount team in round 1. And to top that one was the year DB was leading McMinn Co. by three touchdowns at the half and ended up getting beat. Grahm Clark should have been fired on the spot for that one. I'm too embarrassed to remind everybody how that one ended. 

Some of the positives are........ Way back in 1993 a new conference was formed that included DB and Science Hill from upper east tn, and the rest were "Knoxville area teams". I remember everybody up here was saying DB's days of beating up on these local schools was over. It was the Big East Conference. Lasted 16 years from 1993-2008. DB won the conference 13 times and finished second 3 times. DB has actually had quit a few players go on to play D1 ball, and a few that went on to the NFL. We have at least 1 Super Bowl Champ. Had 2 go to UT in 2012. And they actually played, no bench warmers. What I'm getting at is, there has been and is enough talent coming through Kingsport to win a state championship (or 2). They just don't have a program in place to do it. 

[blazer1set]

This is just a non-professional anecdotal observation, but I do not believe that HS football means that much to the Tri-cities communities like it did in the 70's & 80's.

[DBKPT93]

On 12/23/2023 at 1:13 PM, Swipes said:

I guess we have a difference of opinion since i've seen many kids bust their tail that normally would have been a d3 or d2 player (Like their parents or their parents didn't even play in college) that play D1 football.  Size, Strength, and Speed. can all be made better because once again I've seen what a good nutrition program, weight program, and speed program have done for athletes.  Well funded and letting a Coach run the program the same way Maryville and Alcoa runs their programs are two different things. DB hasn't had championship level coaching in the TSSAA play-off era.  DB is a good program not a Great one and a lot of those wins have been beating up NE Tennessee teams over the decades.  See we definitely have different views because setting a Championship expectation on a school the size of DB isn't unrealistic. (If your coach doesn't have those expectations then he needs to be fired yesterday)  That's the problem with DB they are ok with being Ok like Waco has said for years now.  Go ask those players at Greeneville or Betsy if winning championships is fun and how much work and sacrifice they have put in since kids to get to that point.....and then go ask a DB player and I bet you get a different answer on what is fun.  Different Culture's breed different mentalities 

Then you don’t understand football recruiting. 80% of playing D1 football is genetics. 2 identical players with same stats, 5’11” the other 6’4” and the kid whose 6’4” is a 3 or 4 star. The 5’11” kid is praying a D3 or D2 school takes a chance on him.