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The school my son went to didn't have a dedicated practice room until his junior year (maybe senior, already forgotten). They rolled the mats up after every other practice and these weren't Dollamur light weight mats. The mats weighed hundreds of pounds. Dad's ended up stepping in to be assistants because we couldn't keep any "professionals". No money for the coaches (it was so little it might as well be none). The team was mostly country boys that wrestled in season and played other sports when the season ended. That isn't going to change either, the program will in all likelihood simply exist year to year and get by. You know what? I loved it. Loved almost every second of it. Would it have been nice to win a few more duals that mattered and to gather wide spread recognition across the state? Sure, but those thoughts only lasted a few brief moments and then our team was the greatest team on planet earth. Why? Because I knew the parents, I knew the kids, and there was a camaraderie that went beyond wins and losses. I loved that team as much, and maybe more, as any parent anywhere in Tennessee. I'm going to be brutally honest, high school ends, life starts (granted college is still fun), and nobody gives a f#ck where you wrestled. How many kids that wrestle in college from TN taste success? All that matters is did wrestling teach your kid and those kids around you the life lessons they needed. Although sometimes I think I got more life lessons than my kid. You don't need money or even great success to learn those lessons. What teams like Cleveland, Summit, Wilson Central, PF, Soddy, DB, Signal, Greeneville, etc have done is impressive and it's awesome some kids get to reap the rewards of their work within the format of team sports. The rest can aspire but its hard for "small market" teams to keep coaches and high end talent with what is effectively zero money, that's ok. As far as OP's topic I'm not schooled enough in TN wrestling history to comment about GOAT coaches as I only know the last decade in any detail.

I won't, its not my place. He's a good kid with a good head on his shoulders. The problem with Sequoyah currently is they were so far gone as a program as a whole it won't be a quick turnaround. Everyone comes in basically with the brick by brick mentality. And brick by brick will work as long as you have the masonry, logistics, and a few laborers to help keep it all going. Currently if Sequoyah gets its admistrstion on board they can turn it around. But it won't be a tomorrow type thing but a how much did we improve from last year type thing. Along with that comes the mentality for kids that they "can" win . If you have lost every game your whole career you undoubtedly will not have that killer instinct that successful programs can instill in their kids. I've seen the turnaround that happened at Meigs. Currently teams like Sequoyah get off the bus with the we can't win mentality. Eventually that changes to we can't lose mentality. Whether Sequoyah can get there isn't on the kids. It's all of the people that the kids will have to depend on to guide them to that point. Sorry for the long post but that's about what I see from Sequoyah. I did graduate from there in 96 so I know some of what has went on through the years. Just my 2 cents

Nobody is questioning Cleveland's greatness. Nobody is questioning their willingness to wrestle anywhere. Nobody is questioning they have the best coaching staff top to bottom. Nobody is questioning their work ethic. All anybody is saying is that money plays a part in all of those points.

Please pray for the South Greene community and football team. They had a player pass this morning from a ATV accident yesterday afternoon.

Too spicy since football season hasn't started. Have to calm down. Lol

Why not teach someone to be a good QB and develop the receiving corps.

There is a lot of difference between having a few good individuals and having a great (Top 50) team. Unless you reside in one of the top 5 wrestling states a team must become road warriors if they want to crack the Top 50 on a consistent basis. IMO, money helps with travel, technique instruction, college kids that train with the high school kids and coaching. The annual budget for a Top 50 program would be a minimum of $50K and that would include the youth program and high school team. It's not free to run a successful wrestling program but kids only get better when they train and compete against the very best kids. A majority of the teams in the Top 50 that are not in one of the top 5 wrestling states have a "SUGAR DADDY" that fund 80% of the program. Money will not purchase kids that have a big heart that want to outwork the competition and get better.

Sid knows me and I was there to watch a good portion of Hunter's work (yes, it was nuts, in a good way). The beauty was that other kids saw his success and wanted to emulate and others kids saw he how hard he worked and said I'm good being roughly where I'm at within this sport. There was no avoiding the lesson which was if you want it, then here is the blue print and the blue print is try and outwork me. Each kid had to make a choice and each kid was smacked in the face every day with some hard truth. With a kid like Hunter (and Kodiak) at practice each and every day, well the other kids were tested, a lot. There were zero easy practices. Zero.

Great post!!! A lot to be learned from this. Thank you!

This may be a little long but I will do my best to answer. To answer your question directly I think the average kid can be successful if they are willing to put in the work. Having said that they will need dedicated parents, decent partners and a very good coach. I attribute Hunters success to this. We moved to an area that had a super good coach. “Joe Kemmerer”. Hunter held back in 8th grade and a kid from NC did the same and stayed at our house most of the year. Those two along with Joe did a 3 hr private everyday, took an hour break then did a 2 hr club practice. There were times they was beaten up but they pushed through it and made huge jumps in their wrestling ability. Hunter starts HS and Randy Shelton and Atlas Fagundes gave him everything he needed and more. Got him into the best HS tournaments in the county and provided a tough room. They always gave him and others the option to leave practice early to go To club. After Joe left, ”us hammer parents” mostly Rick Jacobs recruited Nahshon Garrett to run club and Hunter made another level jump. So hard work isn’t the only answer in my opinion, you must have good coaching and dedication from the parents and kids. Most of Hunters HS schedule was as follows. Leave the house at 5am to lift before school, do HS practice, run by the house grab a quick bite then drive an house to Kingsport to practice, return home around 9pm eat do homework and repeat. Most kids aren’t willing to put that kind of Quality work in. a lot of people just quote hard work but it has to be quality hard work and Hunter was blessed to have quality coaches that cared about him. Hunter wasn’t ever naturally gifted as a wrestler. Heck his first year he got pinned almost every match. It wasn’t until he completely dedicated himself that he started having success. If you ask him today he would still say he wasn’t good enough and he has to get better. It’s his mindset that has helped him have a little bit of success in wrestling. we aren’t sure if he will start right away or not. He’s doing very good in the room and Robie told him to be ready to go straight in. I trust the coaches completely and know they will do what’s best for him and the team. I think Hunter would like to redshirt, but would also do whatever the coaches ask of him. Thanks a bunch for keeping up with my boy. Sid

That was me. Point I'm trying to make is this. It's not just one thing, it's a combination. It's the Jimmy's and Joe's and X's and O's. It's hard work and a good system from top to bottom. It's a feeder program that gives a good foundation for what is taught at the HS level. Success breeds success and attracts the kids that are driven. Having facilities and equipment matter. Having the ability to travel and hit tournaments matters. Wrestling rewards experience more than any other sport. Many, probably most programs have only a few of those things, maybe just one or two. Cleveland is rare that they have all those things. None of it matters if there isn't work put in and they put it work. That's what I meant by taking a kid that's decent but willing to put in work, but in an average system. Or doesn't get many good matches cause they dont travel. Or doesn't get to practice as much because they don't have room or facilities. Or has average coaching. Or has average (or bad) practice partners. Put him (or her) in a complete program and they'll get better. It's that simple.

Yet another thing we have in common Sid.

Well said.

I'll add this. Many schools don't even have a dedicated pace to practice in season. And a feeder program? Lol A feeder program needs a place to practice too. Those aren't available for free. If you want to run a summer program, you need a place to practice. Be it AAU or HS. Point is, having facilities is a major hurdle. Heck, it's a road block for most places. If you look at the consistent programs across the state, they have dedicated facilities. Halls, PF, Cleveland, BC... That's no coincidence. In this day and age you have to wrestle year round and have a solid feeder program to be a top team. You can't wrestle year round without a place to do it. Obviously that's only part of it. You have to have consistent coaching, a plan and a system in place. But let's not act like facilities and funding don't matter. They do. I know of one HS team that had to roll out/up mats in a cafeteria to hold practice. Every day. Forget about a summer program or availability for youth to use it. No amount of great coaching will overcome that.

Not sure what Michigan has to do with Wilson Central and I missed how many state championships were in those 12 straight years. Mr. Jones is a great supporter of Cleveland wrestling and has provided funding for transportation in the past, but one of our other supporters has inked that check the last few years. And you failed to mention the 2 full sets of new mats Cleveland received over the last year. Who inked those checks? You and “related to us” appear to be the Mr Know-it-alls about Cleveland wrestling finances, tell us. Success breeds success and supporters. And last, thanks for mentioning the great support staff Knox has surrounded his self with, Great Coaches do that you know.

Biggest problem we have at Maryville is a progressive type principal I'm scared that might not realize the importance of the football program or any sport matter of a fact. She ran off a winning girls basketball coach who was very popular with the fans over some little Flossi Mae on the basketball team and her dear parents Karen and Ken. She sided with Karen and Ken and now the girls basketball program sucks and the basketball coach was also over the football broadcast which also went to pot last year for most of the season until we wore her out over it and now the radio broadcast combined with the TV footage. She killed two birds with one stone on that throw but also cancelled the kids night to wear all black shirts on Alcoa Night which was called Black Out which she claimed that may be racist. Two years ago the towns "Crazy Lady ' who is in most people's opiniom a certifiable nut case led a group trying to change the Red Rebel name which has died down now but I can see those two being birds of a feather and wish they would send her down the road before that all gets fired up again. I graduated from Maryville and feel I have every right to display my concerns how pizzed off I am over this type leadership. Many older football fans of Maryville that can't go to the games any longer paid NFHS to see the games they couldn't go to anymore at home only to see nothing most of the time or something only the Three Stooges could have put together.