open enrollment?

[west tn. football fan]

Just curious....What does everybody think of the fairness of open enrollment vs. schools that have zones? It seems like every year that the schools that excel are open enrollment and zoned schools are good but you play with what you are dealt. my opinion is that every one be zoned or have two different leagues(open and zone) Just want to see if everybody feels the same way?

[cbg]

This topic will be sent to the public/private forum very quickly but here goes.

 

Use the merit system (Ohio does this) for football and you will have very few problems. It is fair to open zoned, private, magnet, and zoned schools. Most people are scared of change.

[west tn. football fan]

This topic will be sent to the public/private forum very quickly but here goes.

 

Use the merit system (Ohio does this) for football and you will have very few problems. It is fair to open zoned, private, magnet, and zoned schools. Most people are scared of change.

 

Can you quickly explain merit system

[Baseballmad]

Plain & simple it just stinks.

 

The open schools should play in their own league. The UT & college feeder system starts in Blount Co. and won't be changed anytime soon.

[fromthetop2]

Open zoning has many definitions as well. You can be opened zoned for anyone, anywhere to come; you can be open zoned for only a particular group of schools to feed; you can be open zoned only for a geographical area; you can be open zoned for academic purposes as well. Another qualifier is how much is open zoning restricted or enforced-and who is doing the enforcement.

 

To say all "open zoned" schools have an advantage, or are even similar, is too much of a broad brush stroke.

[tnsddeveloper]

To say all "open zoned" schools have an advantage, or are even similar, is too much of a broad brush stroke.

Much like how a broad brush is used to paint all privates in a similar light. :justwrestle:

[fromthetop2]

Both camps have members who feel that winning on the football field is actually THE most important mission of their school- despite what it may say on their brochures, signs, school boards, or letterheads. In their minds, winning by stretching, bending, or circumventing rules is only ethically wrong if you get caught or get beat.

 

To me, the biggest difference between privates and publics, generically, is the money and qualifications. Money to pay coaches or to provide facilities; qualifications such as a teachers certification. From these points, the disparities within BOTH sides start to muddle the conversation.

[VolunteerGeneral]

Both camps have members who feel that winning on the football field is actually THE most important mission of their school- despite what it may say on their brochures, signs, school boards, or letterheads. In their minds, winning by stretching, bending, or circumventing rules is only ethically wrong if you get caught or get beat.

 

To me, the biggest difference between privates and publics, generically, is the money and qualifications. Money to pay coaches or to provide facilities; qualifications such as a teachers certification. From these points, the disparities within BOTH sides start to muddle the conversation.

 

fromthetop2...we know though that money cannot be a reason. Certainly Williamson County schools have a huge advantage from a money standpoint than say Memphis city schools. A school like Germantown has a budget over 70,000 for the baseball team. So we know that it`s just not reasonable to start trying to separate schools based on money.

 

BTW...you could give me a million dollars right now and I still couldn`t throw a decent curve ball. :justwrestle:

[VolunteerGeneral]

Can you quickly explain merit system

 

west tn.football fan....I think I was the one who originally threw out the concept on here and others like silverpie have added their own versions or variations. But here is mine in a nutshell...

 

Right now we classify teams (in football) by the number of students at the school. There is no REAL basis for fairness in that system. Some schools have better coaches, some have more money, some have better support etc... Take a team like Warren County that has a large school and plays in 5A. They are only there because they are a big school. But over the last several years WC hasn`t had a very good football team at all.

 

The merit system breaks down classifications by how well the program actually is. For instance, even though WC is a 5A size school they may only be a 3A school in terms of quality. There are all sorts of computer rankings and people that are smart enough (not me) to come up with a formula (much like the BCS does) that can come up with a rating system.

 

What this does is allows all the schools who just don`t have a strong program to be put into 1A. Remember all those rural 1A schools that complained about private schools? This would put all the very worst teams into 1A. That may sound harsh, but in reality if 1A consisted of the worst programs in the state then all those schools would have a more realistic chance of making the playoffs and playing for a championship. Likewise very strong programs like Maryville and Melrose and some of the private schools would be playing with the rest of the top programs in 5A. 5A would be the cream of the crop. That`s where you would find a true state champion.

 

Basically instead of classifying by number of students, you`d be classifying by their performance on the field. If a smaller private school had a very good program, they would continue to be moved up in class until they were playing schools of similar caliber.

 

Some people still want to complain about it, but those are the ones who just don`t like private schools. I think from what I have read though on here that most people from both sides of the issue agree that in concept it is something that would find a level ground in which both sides could live with. Personally I think it would really enhance the quality of high school football in TN. It would give a whole lot more teams a realistic chance of making it to the `boro. When schools can compete and have a chance of winning then community support increases. When community support increases programs get better...well you get the idea.

[fromthetop2]

VG, but for a million dollars, I bet you could get someone to teach you how to throw a heck of a curve ball

 

To me, the money that certain private schools can pay their coaches dwarfs what even most public school systems could conceive. And though your buddy Ron is compensated well, and better than he could be at a certain school he used to be at- it still isn't close to what a Jeff Rutledge commands. That being said, and using your Warren County example, WillCo can afford to have some of the better coaches because of the pay scale than WC. Better coaches follow in many cases the money to better paying jobs. Nothing wrong with that, but if you have a poor school system who doesn't pay their coaches well- I think you will also find a poor football program

 

Better coaches can make good athletes extremely competitive. Poor coaches will hinder even great athletes.

 

Many private schools who are strongly competitive in football have people on their coaching staffs that wouldn't dream of coaching in the publics because of the pay cut, or couldn't because of the restrictions. In reality, it also has to be pointed out that there are certain well-compensated public school coaches, particularly in states outside of Tennessee.

 

Doesn't the merit system play havoc with scheduling?

[Indian]

Here is what the Chattanooga teams could be in a merit system, based on computer rankings from the end of last year. I divided all teams into an equal number, five classes.

 

5A

1-McCallie

2-Baylor

3-Red Bank

4-Ooltewah

5-Tyner

6-Notre Dame

7-Rhea County

 

4A

1-Cleveland

2-Soddy-Daisy

3-Polk County

4-East Ridge

5-McMinn County

6-Boyd-Buchanan

7-Hixson

 

3A

1-South Pittsburg

2-Marion County

3-Meigs County

 

2A

1-Sequatchie County

2-Brainerd

3-Grundy County

4-Howard

5-Walker Valley

6-Bradley Central

7-Chattanooga Central

8-Bledsoe County

 

1A

1-Whitwell

2-Temple

3-Lookout Valley

4-Tellico Plains

5-Copper Basin

6-Chattanooga Grace

7-Silverdale Academy

8-David Brainerd

 

It looks good, until you look at 3A with only three teams. The closest 3A level teams to Marion and South Pittsburg would be Coffee County, Franklin County and Huntland, which would not be bad trips, but where does that leave Meigs? Lenoir City was the closest to Meigs, and no way could they be in a group with Coffee and Franklin, or South Pittsburg or Marion.

Another problem, look at 2A. Probably examples throughout the groupings. Sequatchie was the top level team in this projected 2A, Chattanooga area, according to the computer. This year though, they'd be better off in the 1A-and actually have lost to Temple, Whitwell, Silverdale and were beaten in the jamboree by Lookout Valley. Last year they lost several games by around a touchdown, with any kind of luck, in these projections, they'd be in 3A and this year would have little chance of competing. Just using that team as an example, but a team can compete well for a couple of years with a better than average group of athletes, move up in class and go 1-9, 0-10 when the athletes are back to normal, and that can severely hurt a program, get a coach fired when a team is playing above its level even for a short time.

[tnsddeveloper]

And though your buddy Ron is compensated well, and better than he could be at a certain school he used to be at- it still isn't close to what a Jeff Rutledge commands.

Like I said before, you can't paint all privates with such a broad brush. Rutledge is the except and definitely not the rule for the VAST majority of private school coaches.