Split

[BDURHAM]

Which privates will lead this legal fight?

 

The privates in D2 would welcome more privates,

and they may vote for a split.

 

If there is a vote, and the members vote for a change,

what is the legal basis for a trial? I would suggest

that any such lawsuit would be dismissed.

 

 

 

I disagree completely. If a split is voted for, I would guess it would be along "party" lines. At that point, the privates would commence a large legal campaign using the BA vs. TSSAA state actor rulings.

If the privates are voted to be competely split out from the publics AND they don't commence a legal blitzkrieg ... why would the privates want to have TSSAA public school oversite at that point? They would move on and form their own governing group. But that won't happen because they will sue to be included.

Much agreed.

It can be brought to a vote easily ... they real issue is dealing with the legal proceedings that will follow. Just like BA vs. TSSAA, the privates would sue using it as a precedent. It might get real ugly for the TSSAA at that point.

[Baldcoach]

I don't know much about legal precedent, but from what I have gathered based on the BA lawsuit it is probably illegal to split...further, it is probably illegal to have a DII at all.

 

But that is neither here nor there. I simply don't believe that there is some renewed move for a split. None of the DI privates want one, and the fact that only 1 championship has gone to a private in 2 years should be good evidence that there is no 'domination' going on.

 

Finally, if you are gonna talk about splitting us Stan you better be talking about splitting the dominate publics too...the level playing field argument works both ways. If not, it isn't an argument, it is discrimination, and I KNOW that is illegal and actionable.

[bigchief]

Well, it's official. In the 2 multiplier years the publics have won 5 state championships and the privates 1. That is exactly the same ratio as the number of public schools to private schools in DI. Not only that but the only close game of the 5 public wins has been this year's 3a...the rest were clobbers. And the only private win has been a private vs. private 1a game. Seems the people screaming and crying about the privates' "domination" might have to rethink...

Here is something for you to think about. Yes the publics outnumber privates 5 to 1, but 4 of the six finalists were private. Tha % is a LITTLE higher than 5 to 1. You can really throw out 3A since Lipscomb is the only private school there, so 3 out of 4 were private against a 5 to 1 set-up. I am pretty sure that is what the problem is.

[BDURHAM]

You may want to focus the debate on championships,

but that is not the center of the issue for most coaches

and administrators

 

I'm not talking about splitting anyone; I'm talking about

what I think administrators and coaches may do in terms

of a vote -- according the TSSAA by-laws.

 

I don't know much about legal precedent, but from what I have gathered based on the BA lawsuit it is probably illegal to split...further, it is probably illegal to have a DII at all.

 

But that is neither here nor there. I simply don't believe that there is some renewed move for a split. None of the DI privates want one, and the fact that only 1 championship has gone to a private in 2 years should be good evidence that there is no 'domination' going on.

 

Finally, if you are gonna talk about splitting us Stan you better be talking about splitting the dominate publics too...the level playing field argument works both ways. If not, it isn't an argument, it is discrimination, and I KNOW that is illegal and actionable.

[tnsddeveloper]

Which privates will lead this legal fight?

I believe almost all of the privates will fight a complete split.

 

The privates in D2 would welcome more privates,

and they may vote for a split.

Would they? They don't even want to be in D2. They want to be included in D1.

 

If there is a vote, and the members vote for a change,

what is the legal basis for a trial? I would suggest

that any such lawsuit would be dismissed.

It will not be dismissed. It in fact is the crux of the BA vs. T$$AA lawsuit. The T$$AA is a state actor. The lawsuit is not complete ... but the rulings so far say that said state-actor can NOT discriminate against member schools by removing them from the normal competition. It won't be long before that is all over ... and I think you will be VERY surprised at what the T$$AA has to do to make sure that the discrimination is remedied. I know for a fact that it has been discussed in internal T$$AA meetings.

[BDURHAM]

In what context do the D2 privates not want to be in D2?

Some of the D2 privates certainly brokered the deal for

D2 to happen....after some events transpired.

 

Do all D2 privates want to stop giving financial aid to athletes?

Do all D2 privates want to limit the number of athletes on

financial aid?

 

I suggest that if all of the D2 privates had regulated the

number of athletes on scholarships as they agreed to do,

they might still be in D1. The privates can only blame

themselves for D2.

 

The TSSAA should consider all possibilities regarding the

lawsuit. That is the prudent thing to do.

 

I believe almost all of the privates will fight a complete split.

Would they? They don't even want to be in D2. They want to be included in D1.

It will not be dismissed. It in fact is the crux of the BA vs. T$$AA lawsuit. The T$$AA is a state actor. The lawsuit is not complete ... but the rulings so far say that said state-actor can NOT discriminate against member schools by removing them from the normal competition. It won't be long before that is all over ... and I think you will be VERY surprised at what the T$$AA has to do to make sure that the discrimination is remedied. I know for a fact that it has been discussed in internal T$$AA meetings.

[big red big blue]

 

 

I suggest that if all of the D2 privates had regulated the

number of athletes on scholarships as they agreed to do,

they might still be in D1. The privates can only blame

themselves for D2.

 

 

 

Are you saying that the members of d2 were cheating by not adhering to the set # of scholarship students that could play sports? What schools were doing that? that's the first I have ever heard that cited as the reason for d2. Seems to me if a school was doing that, it should have been punished individually rather than having the whole group sent to its own division.

[coachh17]

Split, split, split!!!!!

[tnsddeveloper]

In what context do the D2 privates not want to be in D2?

Some of the D2 privates certainly brokered the deal for

D2 to happen....after some events transpired.

That fact that BA is suing to in essence end it. I think "brokered the deal" is a little much. The D2 privates saw the writing on the wall and realized that if they don't participate in the process, it will be dictated to them.

 

Do all D2 privates want to stop giving financial aid to athletes?

Do all D2 privates want to limit the number of athletes on

financial aid?

No clue. You can poll them all and find out.

 

I suggest that if all of the D2 privates had regulated the

number of athletes on scholarships as they agreed to do,

they might still be in D1. The privates can only blame

themselves for D2.

There isn't a single instance of where a current D2 private was caught or accused of allow scholarship athletes beyond the quota play pre-D2. Anything to the contrary is rumor and innuendo.

[SHS1]

If my memory is correct, and that is questionable, there was a vote by member schools to make a total split several years ago. Maybe 5-8 years ago. I think it was about a 3 to 1 vote for making the split. The TSSAA voted 4-3 to not make the total split. Sorry I do not remember all the details. Maybe someone can fill in the blanks.

[lazarus]

"Do all D2 privates want to stop giving financial aid to athletes?

Do all D2 privates want to limit the number of athletes on

financial aid?"

 

the d-2 school my kid attended would leave the tssaa rather than deny some of the students the same opportunities the others have... that includes sports.

and financial aid for those who need it is something they believe in.

 

i think very highly of the school and how they approach their mission

(altho they arent by any stretch strong in sports)

Edited December 4, 2006 by lazarus

[Baldcoach]

In what context do the D2 privates not want to be in D2?

Some of the D2 privates certainly brokered the deal for

D2 to happen....after some events transpired.

 

Having been close to a DII school's athletic director (uncle) during this process I can tell you that very few DII privates wanted to go to DII or thought it was in any way fair. In fact, the BA lawsuit is all about that...you can't force member schools in good standing into a seperate category that causes them harm if you are part of the Tennessee Government or represent them (state actor). They would have just split totally but they didn't have enough schools since the DI privates wanted to stay in the TSSAA.

 

Do all D2 privates want to stop giving financial aid to athletes?

Do all D2 privates want to limit the number of athletes on

financial aid?

 

Before the split there was a limit to the amount of financial aid that DII schools could have on any one team I think...it's been a while. Anyway, none of them left over the limit, so I think the answer to this one is self-evident...they would all rejoin DI even with limits.

 

I suggest that if all of the D2 privates had regulated the

number of athletes on scholarships as they agreed to do,

they might still be in D1. The privates can only blame

themselves for D2.

 

There was never a problem with the athletes on financial aid (scholarships are illegal). There was a controversy about BA and McCallie was punished for wrestling an illegal wrestler (it was pretty well proven he was recieving money above and beyond financial aid) and lost their team wrestling title.

 

Note that none of this involves the DI privates...they stayed because they give little or no financial aid...which brings us back to the 'they don't have the funds' argument.