TSSAA Officials

[agitator53]

I believe I was at the same game last night..... Not only was a girl kicked in the face, one got a bloody nose from elbow thrown right in front of the referee. Know tell me he didn't see that?! That wasn't the only incident that happened in front of a referee in which they chose to ignore.

I have been to several ball games during my life and I can not recall when I last saw a game called so horribly as the one I saw Tuesday night. I am very thankful that no one was seriously hurt. Refs wake up and call the games consistent on both ends. I believe the game was called Tuesday night due to the refs not liking the fans or the coach... Well refs, guys/gals, HELLO, it's not about the fans or the coaches, the game is for the PLAYERS! You are not doing anyone any favors by not calling true fouls against either team. You are there to call the game and to protect the players from serious injury. By allowing kicking, elbows, punching and so on, you're teaching the kids that it is ok to be rough and to hurt each other. Try teaching them the real meaning of basketball. Refs do us all a favor and all the game for the players. Get over your egos, your power trips you have while you're on the floor and remember you are there for the kids.

 

For the most part, the majority of refs do a good job at keeping things under control. As a parent, fan and coach, I ask you Mr. / Ms ref call the game for the kids and forget anyone else is in the gym. Lets help teach our young adults how to be more of adults than anything else. Teach them how to have respect for each other and the game. Be a positive role modle yourself.

 

BBall Fan 4ever, you hit the nail on the head with your comment. I saw probably the worst 3 officials in East TN last night at Seymour I've ever seen. They didn't know the rules, and let the game get out of hand. There is no excuse! These officials are there to preserve order and make the game safe. We're seeing too many who just can't/won't do it! I agree that the majority of these "brave souls" do a good job. I'm afraid the balance is getting close to dead center, though. The 3 man officials needs to go. Two officials are much better. Yes, they don't see as much as 3 would, but there is always a less than acceptable partner for the 2 good officials. The game is for the kids. Coaches, fans in general, and especially the officials need to get back to this fact. Thanks for "sounding off". I love to "agitate" a good "discussion", but I'm with you on this one!

[bluesbrother]

I have 2 questions. Is it true single A ref's are newbies or bottom of barrel quality refs?? What is the rule on a double techincal fouls? The officiating crew at the WH Heritage and East Robertson game was one of the worst yet. They call a tech on the ER coach who was not out of line at all. There was a ref who was at the NCS game also who pays more attention to the stands than he does the ballgame. There were so many bad calls on both sides that is was a fair game. What rock do some of these guys crawl out from under.

Edited December 20, 2006 by bluesbrother

[Indian]

Saw a game this morning, where what looked like a 5-second inbound call, walk and over-and-back all took place in about 10 to 12 seconds and not one was called. The fans counted to 8 during another 5-second no-call, even if counting a little fast it was obvious. The home coach was allowed to walk up and down the sideline the whole game, that might not be major but it's against the rules. On another walk, everyone yells "walk" and the main one missing the calls turns around and tells the crowd "she didn't walk," and he wasn't smiling, the girl took two steps after getting a pass near halfcourt, before dribbling. One player dribbing in the open floor was bumped hard and went to the floor in the first 30 seconds of the game, that should have told everyone how it was going to be, no foul called but if there wasn't a foul it should have been walking as she slid on her kneepads. One team led at the half but had four fouls called in the first 1:30 of the third quarter and was in the bonus before the quarter ended, never got to shoot 1-and-1 the second half themselves. Rarely got to the foul line in the second half unless a player was hammered, touch fouls called on the other end weren't being called for them. All of these things and others like them might not seem like a lot, but add them all up and it was very frustrating. These calls went the way for an undefeated, home team in Georgia at a tournament, maybe it's to be expected playing a team with a winning reputation but it doesn't make it acceptable.

Edited December 21, 2006 by Indian

[whistleblower]

Wow, where do I start?

 

I know that when we make a call, it is not going to be popular with at least half of the gym. Rightfully so, fans are going to cheer for their team and go against any and all calls against their team, and we (officials) understand that! We are going to do the best job possible knowing that people are going to be insulting, rude, and ignorant of the rules.

 

I have been in ballgames where both teams were not fouling much at all, been in games where both teams were killing each other and we were calling fouls every other second (and people were yelling to 'let them play'). I've been in ballgames where one team was playing great defense (not fouling) while the other team was hacking, snatching, & grabbing every play (and people were yelling about the fouls being uneven). Fouls are not going to be even, fouls should be fair!

 

I cannot help that one team is playing great while the other is fouling a bunch. I cannot help that one team is shooting the bonus while the other team is no where near it. I cannot help that one team has shot 20 free throws (because the other team keeps fouling on shots) while the other team has shot very few (because the other team is playing great defense and not fouling).

 

I understand people's frustration to some extent. When a team commits no turnovers, hits 100% of their shots, and commits no turnovers and loses, I'll listen to the "referees lost the game for us".

 

One last thing, I referee because I love the game and enjoy it. Contrary to belief, I don't make much money doing it (after buying uniforms, gas, etc.). I personally could care less what is said from the stands, I know the truth and tune you out, however be very careful what you yell. I dare say if I went to your job and yelled at you the things that are said at a ballgame you would get fighting upset or try to call the police on me.

[GovMan]

Wow, where do I start?

 

I know that when we make a call, it is not going to be popular with at least half of the gym. Rightfully so, fans are going to cheer for their team and go against any and all calls against their team, and we (officials) understand that! We are going to do the best job possible knowing that people are going to be insulting, rude, and ignorant of the rules.

 

I have been in ballgames where both teams were not fouling much at all, been in games where both teams were killing each other and we were calling fouls every other second (and people were yelling to 'let them play'). I've been in ballgames where one team was playing great defense (not fouling) while the other team was hacking, snatching, & grabbing every play (and people were yelling about the fouls being uneven). Fouls are not going to be even, fouls should be fair!

 

I cannot help that one team is playing great while the other is fouling a bunch. I cannot help that one team is shooting the bonus while the other team is no where near it. I cannot help that one team has shot 20 free throws (because the other team keeps fouling on shots) while the other team has shot very few (because the other team is playing great defense and not fouling).

 

I understand people's frustration to some extent. When a team commits no turnovers, hits 100% of their shots, and commits no turnovers and loses, I'll listen to the "referees lost the game for us".

 

One last thing, I referee because I love the game and enjoy it. Contrary to belief, I don't make much money doing it (after buying uniforms, gas, etc.). I personally could care less what is said from the stands, I know the truth and tune you out, however be very careful what you yell. I dare say if I went to your job and yelled at you the things that are said at a ballgame you would get fighting upset or try to call the police on me.

 

Great post Whistleblower. I believe, like any other profession (or hobby) you're going to occasionally run into people that aren't great at what they do, or that maybe have bad attitudes. I've seen that some with refs, probably a lot more with coaches.

 

Here's a question, from someone who coaches a little to someone who referees. How do you like a coach to "plead his or her case with you?" Are you ok with coaches talking to you while you're working? Asking you maybe to watch someone who's camping out in the lane, or who's holding, or not getting set on a screen? I'm learning more and more that making the refs your enemy ain't gonna get you anywhere, but if I'm level headed and don't make a scene or show you up, will you listen to me and maybe watch harder for something that's being missed?

 

Who are some coaches who the refs respect and even look forward to working their games?

[PHargis]

I appreciate the posts on here and their passion and sincerety but what is evident is there are Ref's who take this seriously and the ones complained about are really not on this site.

The real question hasn't been asked I think and although some have alluded to it, no one has made a suggestion. The TSSAA farms out officiating to Associations all over the state to do what Associations do including TRAINING OFFICIALS. It should be more than filling out an application to call and its thought in some ASSOCIATIONS it is more than that and is monitored. Ever so often one might run in to an Association which might be a little out of touch, not often, but sometimes. I really don't know who is in charge of these Associations and have been told in some parts of the state they are loosely organized organizations who just do their thing.

 

Certainly if there is any truth in what has been posted and the complaints are valid, one should understand what Association the officials come out of, but be clear, some of these posts are right about the way the ones who are trying to do a good job are sensitive to it. What most are posting are TRAINING and JUDGEMENT ISSUES that no one official or ASSOCIATION OF OFFICIALS want to be connected with because it is a reflection on them also.

 

If the ASSOCIATION OFFICIALS cannot take care of their group, which i assure you they can, they should lose their accreditation to have an association and it should be given to someone else. These are professional people that referee mostly for the love of it and drive howsomany miles. They are graded, so I understand it, by the schools they service for each game. How often has an association been chastised by the TSSAA. Probably never. They likely assume the Association will take care of it and they can

 

It is likely the officials you are talking about according to some posts on here are about 15% of the officials. That means that possible one of three in a team might need training and may be being trained before your eyes. Some referees have posted on here, and have been very candid, that they have asked not to be paired with some officials for various reasons. If the reason has some validity, then it is the job of the ASSOCIATION OFFICIALS to take some kind of corrective action. I could not believe officials want to be mistaken in public where all can see unless they have a chip on their shoulder and I have not seen that happen.

 

I have seen, in the games I ahve watched, a distinct improvement in the professionalism and the technical aspects the past five years. but I believe instead of posting to be posting, that ,as some do, post the game and in addition, the Association and not try to broadbrush and characterize all Referees not good to fit your own partisonship. That way if an Association does not generally meet the standards of the TSSAA, someone with the TSSAA can be notified with facts. These are ASSOCIAION PROBLEMS that they are willing to be on top of is my opinion but sometimes my opinions may be flawed.

[PTSportsWriter]

go to Knoxville if you want to see bad officiating.

 

I've witnessed many games that the Knox South or Knox Ridge crew have called and I've only seen one good game called by those guys out of about 20 (And this was a Region 2-A championship last year, so it was probably their best crew).

[S.O.S.HS05]

I've seen some similar incidents that you speak of but unless you've just got some blatantly "one-sided" refs, all the so-called "bad calls" usually even out over the course of the game. I have to agree that it's one of the most unfulfilling jobs to have and I know I wouldn't do it. What makes it even less desirable is that they've always got the stands full of critics and self-made refs who think they know the game better than the officials on the floor. Those people need to be out there doing the job if they actually know every rule and think they can see every call. Amazingly, even they (the self-made refs) only seem to see the fouls and such from the opposing team and never their own. One thing that irks me is when the fans are always screaming "WALK!" as soon as an opposing player takes a step with the ball. Maybe the refs should just go over the rules with the fans before each game so some of these people might actually know what they are.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, it's a Thankless Job but somebody's got to do it. You have to give these people a break from time to time. When you have a close game and the stands are full of screaming fans, they're gonna miss a few every once in a while.

[INURFACE]

What also gets me about the refs that are suppose to be calling the games and not watching the stands, i have saw a ref wink at the people in stands after they were

telling her to watch the holding that the other team was doing. How is she to do her job correctly if she is watching the stands to let the people know that SHE IS IN CHARGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[citicotim]

In the Knoxville area officiating can either be pretty good or unbelievably poor. There are many good refs, probably most, but there are a few from whom you can always expect inconstency or just plain bad officiating. If they are grouped together they seem to compete for who will "control" the game and invariably interject themselves into the outcome. If they are grouped with better refs they will often be overruled. I have seen one particular ref overruled 4 times in 2 games and in a weaker group I have seen him determine the outcome of a game, which I view as an official's greatest sin.

 

The one thing that is not being called in Knoxville is hand checking. Teams in knoxville are being allowed to use there hands too aggressively and flagrantly push the ball handler around. More often than not the defender can keep a hand on the guard at all times and I have yet to see it called. I was told a year or so ago that this was something that the refs were going to be watching but apparently the message didn't make it to Knoxville, or they have a short (maybe selective) memory.

 

Again, most of the refs are pretty fair but when they allow one or two to get out of control and refuse to overrule them on obvious calls, rightly or wrongly, the whole group gets painted with the same brush.

[PHargis]

In the Knoxville area officiating can either be pretty good or unbelievably poor. There are many good refs, probably most, but there are a few from whom you can always expect inconstency or just plain bad officiating. If they are grouped together they seem to compete for who will "control" the game and invariably interject themselves into the outcome. If they are grouped with better refs they will often be overruled. I have seen one particular ref overruled 4 times in 2 games and in a weaker group I have seen him determine the outcome of a game, which I view as an official's greatest sin.

 

The one thing that is not being called in Knoxville is hand checking. Teams in knoxville are being allowed to use there hands too aggressively and flagrantly push the ball handler around. More often than not the defender can keep a hand on the guard at all times and I have yet to see it called. I was told a year or so ago that this was something that the refs were going to be watching but apparently the message didn't make it to Knoxville, or they have a short (maybe selective) memory.

 

Again, most of the refs are pretty fair but when they allow one or two to get out of control and refuse to overrule them on obvious calls, rightly or wrongly, the whole group gets painted with the same brush.

Could it be that with the experiece and knowledge they have, the game gets past them a little bit instead of them being just bad. Everybody has to start somewhere and with this high profile, highly visable situation any call is scrutinized. Knoxville is a situation that officials are influenced by the Vols play and sometimes officials may call it by what they see on the college scene. While this could be a tendency, they might not know thats happening. That is why it is thought that incidental contact is some cases is being called to the extreme and covers up sometimes the knowledge each might have of the game. this is certainly not a criticism because how many would like to walk in their shoes, raise your hand. No hands, but if there might be go to the TSSAA site and fill out an application. for the most part, these guys/gals are responding very well and are appreciated and I think the associations appreciate the feedback except when emotions boil over and get in the way of reason. The Association needs to take control of any of these situations and it is firmly believed that they will in some way, whatever that be, try to communicate their thoughts back which is why I like this communication because there has been no communication or feedback in the past. i think some of these communications from referees do a great job in communicating their positions. Edited December 22, 2006 by PHargis

[PHargis]

What also gets me about the refs that are suppose to be calling the games and not watching the stands, i have saw a ref wink at the people in stands after they were

telling her to watch the holding that the other team was doing. How is she to do her job correctly if she is watching the stands to let the people know that SHE IS IN CHARGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Certainly if I was officiating and read your post, whatever my gender, i would realize some fans may be taking my attempt to not be a person who did not listen, wrong. However, wording in a post might no get the problem resolved which I am sure if it gets back to the official, might help the situation. Partisonship sometimes does not allow clarity of written thioughts.