Indian nicknames could be history in TN

[Sequoyah SID]

Right on the mark. You should be a motivational speaker. Great post.

[topvol98]

It never ceases to amaze me how white people can come up with arguements to justify what they want when other groups of people tell them to stop doing something that they feel does them an injustice. The bottom line is that there are Native Americans who can see there history in the eyes of their people and that history includes raping of their women, killing of their children, the taking of land by force, forced to live in concentration camps (I mean reservations) and an systematic attempt to remove them off the face of the earth. Now those same people want to say that they should feel honored that the great conqueror wants to use their culture and likeness as mascots for their schools. Yes, they use warriors, brave, seminoles, etc and say that these are sources of inspirations but the Native Americans don't believe it's the same thing so maybe instead of arguing why they should be use maybe people should listen to why the people who are being offended shold listen to why they shouldn't be used.

The rebel flag was used for the symbol outlaws who wanted to do what they want and how they wanted. The civil war was about preserving the United States of America. The cause was economics and human rights. The south wanted free labor by use of slaves. Those are the reasons of the civil war. You shouldn't have to talk to an reenactor to get to those points. The rebel flag has been used in the south as an rallying call for racist white people and their groups ever since. Most notably the Klu Klux Klan, so if you can't see why black people see that as an racist symbol you don't want to. Besides it's an divider what's more important to you, hoping to become an traitor and outlaw (which was what the confederate states of america was) and American. This country had to be united through warfare but there is still an sect of people who refuse "to move one and get over it". It's funny how people who are on the side of transgressions can tell people how they should just move one while they keep trying to hold on to control.

The Black Panther party was just one of many social reform groups in this country during the Civil Rights Movement. The panther itself is an animal. I have an difficult time trying to see the connection with an school with predominatly black students and the use of an panther but I guess if that's the best you can do I understand. I don't think most white people would make that connection but ask any black person about the connection they see with the rebel flag and almost everyone of them will identifly hatred with that. It amazes me that the time you see the most rebel flags from trucks is when south is playing db, Tn High, or Science Hill which just happens to be the schools with the biggest population of black students on the field or court. Maybe it takes having to listen to your grandparents tell you how horrifying it was to see an cross burned on their lawn but people in white sheets with an rebel flag parading to understand that but then again maybe the cowards in the sheets don't tell their grandkids that story. I know most of the schools in TN can be classified as white, why not change some of their mascots to klan hoods, lynched black people or maybe swastikas(for the areas with German backgrounds) and that can even up whatever black schools that have panthers.

I can understand both sides of the argument because it deals with change and there are people that feel that are losing something when change comes along. This country has seen an great deal of progress in race issues in the last 50 years but it still has alot of unresolved issues that will continue to surface as the minorities that haven't been heard find their voices. It takes an commitment to understanding the pain that people have been through and unless you've been in those shoes you can't tell them that are making an big deal of nothing. It starts with taking of blinders and getting away from the binoculars and seeing the whole situation. Progress is made when move forward by taking account the past and working to improve the future for all Americans.

[DBGRAD70]

My view is very simple. If you can't show how the mascot is disrespectful and prove it to a jury, then you have no case, topvol98. You will find nothing in the halls of Dobyns Bennett that does anything but respect the American Indian image. The Indians there are white, black, asian, indian, and many others. Most if not all take pride in being called Indians. Take that beautiful mural on the wall of the basketball arena....

 

 

 

It is an image of strength and is beautifully portrayed. They, and yes we - former Indians, are proud to be part of that Tribe. Sorry you seem to have a chip on your shoulder. The people of color - both black and red - and yes white heritage, that I work with and have as neighbors, have long since left the 60's behind and work and play together today. Perhaps you should too.

[jabbo]

Excellent post, DBGRAD70. Pretty much sums it all up.

[topvol98]

QUOTE(jabbo @ Jan 28 2007 - 08:25 AM) 826349024[/snapback]

Excellent post, DBGRAD70. Pretty much sums it all up.

 

 

or proves my point

[The Hill]

United States of America land of the offended.

[barb]

QUOTE(topvol98 @ Jan 27 2007 - 06:41 AM) 826347865[/snapback]

 

I can understand both sides of the argument because it deals with change and there are people that feel that are losing something when change comes along. This country has seen an great deal of progress in race issues in the last 50 years but it still has alot of unresolved issues that will continue to surface as the minorities that haven't been heard find their voices. It takes an commitment to understanding the pain that people have been through and unless you've been in those shoes you can't tell them that are making an big deal of nothing. It starts with taking of blinders and getting away from the binoculars and seeing the whole situation. Progress is made when move forward by taking account the past and working to improve the future for all Americans.

 

 

This is the most articulate point made on this issue so far. Noone respects tradition more than traditional native americans and they are seeing theirs slowly being eradicated or assimilated into Anglo-American culture. This "we have used the symbol for a long time and if you don't like it that's just too bad" attitude is disturbing to me as an American and a Christian. Preserving the symbol of our schools has become more important than respecting the symbols of their ancestors and culture. The argument is so lame..."Don't mess with our traditions and symbols"...it kinda goes both ways. It is apparently OK for people to be upset over the possibility of losing their football mascot, but heaven forbid, the people who are actually offended by the misuse of their cultural icons should voice their oppositions. That has got to be the most arrogant, egotistical and hypocratic attitude I have seen displayed by what are normally level headed, compassionate people.

[Lost Old Dad]

I wonder who will be offended 'if' a school nicknamed themselves the REDNECKS?

 

Would be a natural for ANY school starting with the R in their name. IE, Riverdale, Ravenwood, Ridgeway.

 

We have forgotten the main thing this nation was founded on and that it is a democratic 'REPUBLIC' and not a democracy. In it a Republic goes with the majority and not with the whining of the few.

 

While this is not PC it is a fact. Maybe we should nickname all the schools after things that are extinct so nobody would have a gripe. While a T-rex would be great nobody would want to be named the Dodo's after that long dead bird.

[jabbo]

QUOTE(Lost Old Dad @ Jan 28 2007 - 11:12 AM) 826349159[/snapback]

I wonder who will be offended 'if' a school nicknamed themselves the REDNECKS?

 

Would be a natural for ANY school starting with the R in their name. IE, Riverdale, Ravenwood, Ridgeway.

 

We have forgotten the main thing this nation was founded on and that it is a democratic 'REPUBLIC' and not a democracy. In it a Republic goes with the majority and not with the whining of the few.

 

While this is not PC it is a fact. Maybe we should nickname all the schools after things that are extinct so nobody would have a gripe. While a T-rex would be great nobody would want to be named the Dodo's after that long dead bird.

 

 

 

Maybe we should just do away with mascots altogether....we can have the Riverdale Riverdalians, the Lincoln County Lincoln Countians, the Oakland Oaklanders, Tullahoma....uh oh, that won't work. Gotta change the name of the city before we can go on. While we're at it let's change the name of Tennessee, Alabama, Mississippi, Michigan, Illinois, and a bunch of other states.

 

DBGRAD70's point was "how is the mascot disrespectful"? The question hasn't been answered yet. Using the Confederate battle flag as an example doesn't answer his question.

 

The colonization of the New World was a nasty, bloody, and mostly immoral business that can be filed away with a lot of other nasty, bloody, and immoral business that the human race in general has perpetrated. I don't doubt that being on the receiving end of that business can give a person an attitude, and I don't doubt that being on the receiving end of that business can keep a person from putting down the binoculars and looking at the whole situation in it's entire historical context, rather than just the ugly part of that history.

[compusatman]

QUOTE(jabbo @ Jan 28 2007 - 01:37 PM) 826349216[/snapback]

Maybe we should just do away with mascots altogether....we can have the Riverdale Riverdalians, the Lincoln County Lincoln Countians, the Oakland Oaklanders, Tullahoma....uh oh, that won't work. Gotta change the name of the city before we can go on. While we're at it let's change the name of Tennessee, Alabama, Mississippi, Michigan, Illinois, and a bunch of other states.

 

DBGRAD70's point was "how is the mascot disrespectful"? The question hasn't been answered yet. Using the Confederate battle flag as an example doesn't answer his question.

 

The colonization of the New World was a nasty, bloody, and mostly immoral business that can be filed away with a lot of other nasty, bloody, and immoral business that the human race in general has perpetrated. I don't doubt that being on the receiving end of that business can give a person an attitude, and I don't doubt that being on the receiving end of that business can keep a person from putting down the binoculars and looking at the whole situation in it's entire historical context, rather than just the ugly part of that history.

 

 

 

however,.............(the rest of what started out to be a great post?)

[DBGRAD70]

Actually, lately I see a lot of Indians around here but most are not natives. A lot are doctors and such. Oh wait, they're from India! Which reminds me, the only real Indians ARE the ones from India. Native Americans were mis-named "indians" because Columbus thought he had landed in India. So I guess all this is moot and this group can't legitimately claim the Indian label. Or do we have to worry about what both groups think now?

[ballhawk]

Let's also do away with Vikings (bloodthirsty Norsemen), Crusaders (millions of Christians and Muslims died in the Crusades), Devils (obvious), Knights (see Crusaders), Governors (separation of church and state), Tornadoes (kill thousands of people every year), Bears - Tigers - Lions - Cougars - Panthers (deadly carnivores), Roadrunners (Wile E. Coyote is offended), and 49ers (greedy prospectors who killed indiscriminately anyone who tried to steal their gold). I am being facetious of course, but sometimes this stuff can get so ridiculous. Let's tackle some real problems in our schools like underage pregnancy, dropout rates, drug abuse, and violence; and let benign issues, like a mascot, go away.