Indian nicknames could be history in TN

[Sequoyah SID]

QUOTE(ballhawk @ Jan 29 2007 - 07:44 PM) 826350788[/snapback]

Let's also do away with Vikings (bloodthirsty Norsemen), Crusaders (millions of Christians and Muslims died in the Crusades), Devils (obvious), Knights (see Crusaders), Governors (separation of church and state), Tornadoes (kill thousands of people every year), Bears - Tigers - Lions - Cougars - Panthers (deadly carnivores), Roadrunners (Wile E. Coyote is offended), and 49ers (greedy prospectors who killed indiscriminately anyone who tried to steal their gold). I am being facetious of course, but sometimes this stuff can get so ridiculous. Let's tackle some real problems in our schools like underage pregnancy, dropout rates, drug abuse, and violence; and let benign issues, like a mascot, go away.

 

 

 

Very well said. There are more important issues that involve everyone of every race, creed, or color that need to be addressed. That would take everyone coming together like our pledge says, "one nation, under god", but we still want to fight against each other, or be recognized as the person who got this or that done, who want their 15 minutes of fame. Who is actually practicing discrimination? The answer is..... we all are. Instead of coming together to use our God given intelligence to figure out solutions to much greater problems, we would rather continue to struggle over things that doesn't hold as much of an impact on our childrens futures.

[Lost Old Dad]

The biggest problem with this whole mess is it takes away from the kids in that folks have to spend money for lawyers to fight this and that is LESS money the school systems have to spend on the kids.

 

Then there is the time wasted that could be spent doing other things that would actually benefit the kids.

 

Seems this is just another case of a 'FEW' messing up things for the kids that could not care what they are called as long as they are winners.

 

For myself I don't care what they are called 'officially', I will still support the "WARRIORS of Riverdale"!

[DiverCity]

QUOTE(topvol98 @ Jan 27 2007 - 07:41 AM) 826347865[/snapback]

It never ceases to amaze me how white people can come up with arguements to justify what they want when other groups of people tell them to stop doing something that they feel does them an injustice..... ad infinitum, ad naseum

 

 

Topvol98, respectfully, you're spouting the radical, leftist, multi-culti sewage that now rules increasingly with its Marxist-Leninist, totalitarian rants on college campuses, in Western Europe, and, unfortunately, increasingly in America at large. This is well exemplified by the those who want to mandate more politically correct mascots and necessarily caste themselves as victims of western culture.

 

Make no mistake, the line that you espouse is cultural suicide. For example, how do you respond to the following question: any preference for the religious, moral, philosophical, aesthetic, or ethnocultural components of traditional Western society over those of minority or marginal cultures is a. Good, or b. Bad?

 

Most of the cultural elite will choose b., as I'm sure you would. This is otherwise known as radical egalitarianism: everybody is the same; there are no differences; no one is better at anything that anyone else, and if your lying eyes tell you differently, well then we just have to brainwash you some more so that you fail to recognize that groups are indeed diverse! But if western culture, which has produced the most amazing, useful and industrious achievements in all of history, cannot be preferred by those of us who choose not to drink the politically correct Kool-aid, then here is an example of what we have to look forward to: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/arti...in_page_id=1770 Good 'ol England has gone off the deep end in its slavish adherence to the multicultural mantra.

 

Does western culture have its faults? Certainly. Has it made egregious mistakes in the past such as slavery, Jim Crow laws, and mistreatment of Native Americans? Absolutely. But who caused us to change or rectify those things? Was it some other culture? Did some other culture invade us, put a knife to our collective throats and say you better change or else? No, it was western culture that evolved to stop these things on its OWN! Who stopped fascism, which was a throw-back to paganism, and Japanese imperialism? Western culture! Who presided over the death of Communism? Western culture! Which culture has produced over 90% of Nobel laureates? Western culture!

 

Jabbo is right -- if I understood him correctly -- look at the big picture and quit majoring on the minor and worrying so much about feelings! So is ballhawk, who understands what is really important. I'm going to fight to the last to ensure that western culture survives. I make no apology that I favor America and its cultural institutions. I reject radical multiculturalism in all its guises. Therefore, I, unlike you, truly recognize diversity.

[lastone2know]

DiverCity u loose people w/ all the talk .... just get 2 the pt. If u look back through this chat log those that have made comments & are Native Americans are OK with the schools keeping the indian mascots. they are not offended. there will always be a few in every situation that can not be pleased it is just a shame that they find a way to make a lawsuit out of it. OH btw I am 1 of the native americans that is replying on this chat. LEAVE THE MASCOTS ALONE!!

[DBGRAD70]

QUOTE(DiverCity @ Jan 30 2007 - 04:31 PM) 826351910[/snapback]

Topvol98, respectfully, you're spouting the radical, leftist, .......

 

 

Very nice post. I agree.

[barb]

QUOTE(DiverCity @ Jan 30 2007 - 04:31 PM) 826351910[/snapback]

Topvol98, respectfully, you're spouting the radical, leftist, multi-culti sewage that now rules increasingly with its Marxist-Leninist, totalitarian rants on college campuses, in Western Europe, and, unfortunately, increasingly in America at large. This is well exemplified by the those who want to mandate more politically correct mascots and necessarily caste themselves as victims of western culture.

 

Make no mistake, the line that you espouse is cultural suicide. For example, how do you respond to the following question: any preference for the religious, moral, philosophical, aesthetic, or ethnocultural components of traditional Western society over those of minority or marginal cultures is a. Good, or b. Bad?

 

Most of the cultural elite will choose b., as I'm sure you would. This is otherwise known as radical egalitarianism: everybody is the same; there are no differences; no one is better at anything that anyone else, and if your lying eyes tell you differently, well then we just have to brainwash you some more so that you fail to recognize that groups are indeed diverse! But if western culture, which has produced the most amazing, useful and industrious achievements in all of history, cannot be preferred by those of us who choose not to drink the politically correct Kool-aid, then here is an example of what we have to look forward to: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/arti...in_page_id=1770 Good 'ol England has gone off the deep end in its slavish adherence to the multicultural mantra.

 

Does western culture have its faults? Certainly. Has it made egregious mistakes in the past such as slavery, Jim Crow laws, and mistreatment of Native Americans? Absolutely. But who caused us to change or rectify those things? Was it some other culture? Did some other culture invade us, put a knife to our collective throats and say you better change or else? No, it was western culture that evolved to stop these things on its OWN! Who stopped fascism, which was a throw-back to paganism, and Japanese imperialism? Western culture! Who presided over the death of Communism? Western culture! Which culture has produced over 90% of Nobel laureates? Western culture!

 

Jabbo is right -- if I understood him correctly -- look at the big picture and quit majoring on the minor and worrying so much about feelings! So is ballhawk, who understands what is really important. I'm going to fight to the last to ensure that western culture survives. I make no apology that I favor America and its cultural institutions. I reject radical multiculturalism in all its guises. Therefore, I, unlike you, truly recognize diversity.

 

 

I think there is a big difference between respecting the culture of our indigenous people and embracing the culture of immigrants. People who immigrate to this country both legally and illegaly choose to do so and in making that choice should choose to embrace our culture. Applying this pseudo-culteral horse-hockey to this issue seems a little over-the top. Yes I believe we have taken this multi-cultural diversity thing a bit too far but these natives are just as American as any of us who are blessed to be born in this great nation and have every right to demand that the constitution protect their cultural institutions. You spew your Western-culture drivel like the Cherokee came over with a boat load of Cuband or crawled over the fence from Mexico. Every one of us lives on land that used to belong to them. Yet we seem to want to treat them like foreigners.

[DiverCity]

QUOTE(barb @ Jan 30 2007 - 06:23 PM) 826352009[/snapback]

I think there is a big difference between respecting the culture of our indigenous people and embracing the culture of immigrants. People who immigrate to this country both legally and illegaly choose to do so and in making that choice should choose to embrace our culture. Applying this pseudo-culteral horse-hockey to this issue seems a little over-the top. Yes I believe we have taken this multi-cultural diversity thing a bit too far but these natives are just as American as any of us who are blessed to be born in this great nation and have every right to demand that the constitution protect their cultural institutions. You spew your Western-culture drivel like the Cherokee came over with a boat load of Cuband or crawled over the fence from Mexico. Every one of us lives on land that used to belong to them. Yet we seem to want to treat them like foreigners.

 

 

 

 

You and I have a fundamental disagreement. You see Native American mascots and monikers as harmful. I don't. And there is no consensus even among Native Americans on the issue either. The Seminoles are proud, for example, that FSU has adopted their symbols. There is nothing in my previous post here that can legitimately be taken, as you somehow have, as belittling indigenies. Of course they are American and have the same rights as any other American. Perhaps you're allowing your own liberal perspective to color your reading of my post.

 

As far as us living on land that used to belong to them, I agree. But are you prepared to give yours up? And what's your point? All modern behavioral humans are "immigrants" to some extent. And the world is full of cultures that have ascended and, yes, have overtaken others through violence and less than savory means. But that, as I hope you realize, can be a matter of perspective. The crusades are cited by leftists as an example of the evil of western culture. What they forget is that the first crusade was a legitimate response to the invading hordes of Islam (the "Religion of Peace"). Unlike you, I'm not going to apologize for the fact that some cultures ascend and others descend. It simply is a fact of human history and existence.

 

And one question, which constitutional right is offended by having Native American mascots (even one such as the Redskins)?

[Lost Old Dad]

I got asked ONCE what my heritage was. My answer is my forefathers owned slaves and shot Indians. Does that make them bad? Nope, as it was what folks did back THEN.

 

For me this whole thing is silly as I am Part Cherokee (Great-great-great Grandmother was a slow runner) and an adopted member of the Souix Tribe. Does it matter to the rest of the world? Nope! Am I sueing anybody over it? Again NOPE!

 

If we spent one tenth of the time doing something about the dope in the schools as we do about this the kids would be MUCH better off. They are our future and that is what we should be concerned about.

 

This is my LAST post on this subject as there are lots of things more important for me to worry about.

[compusatman]

QUOTE(unc4life @ Jan 30 2007 - 04:45 PM) 826351935[/snapback]

DiverCity u loose people w/ all the talk .... just get 2 the pt. If u look back through this chat log those that have made comments & are Native Americans are OK with the schools keeping the indian mascots. they are not offended. there will always be a few in every situation that can not be pleased it is just a shame that they find a way to make a lawsuit out of it. OH btw I am 1 of the native americans that is replying on this chat. LEAVE THE MASCOTS ALONE!!

 

 

 

Cumulatively, I believe, we agree that the use of the Indian culture as a mascot is by far the least insulted culture being personafied. It just so happens to be the most celebrated. But after that comes the African/American/White/American mascot issue...this is the one that will cause the most ripple. There are those in America that will not be happy until the history books are re-written in regards to the racial dogma that surrounds the Civil War. Not happy until all representation of that era is erased from our educational system and teaching thereof is recalibrated to eliminate that part of our cultural heritage as if it did not exist. Not happy until racism is not introduced to our young children and therefor not understood...and hopefully not practiced. This same mentality exists with bearing arms, sexual preference, religious preference, etc...I understand life to be a choice. And therefore a commitment. And ultimately a philosophy. A philosophy which bears fruit. The fruit of which is a labor of love and sacrifice...not of manipulation and falsification. Give me the facts and I will decide who was right and wrong and try to adjust my life to reflect the wisdom thereof. But I refuse to hide from reality and don't wish anyone to be a victim of it.

[barb]

QUOTE(DiverCity @ Jan 30 2007 - 07:01 PM) 826352092[/snapback]

You and I have a fundamental disagreement. You see Native American mascots and monikers as harmful. I don't. And there is no consensus even among Native Americans on the issue either. The Seminoles are proud, for example, that FSU has adopted their symbols. There is nothing in my previous post here that can legitimately be taken, as you somehow have, as belittling indigenies. Of course they are American and have the same rights as any other American. Perhaps you're allowing your own liberal perspective to color your reading of my post.

 

As far as us living on land that used to belong to them, I agree. But are you prepared to give yours up? And what's your point? All modern behavioral humans are "immigrants" to some extent. And the world is full of cultures that have ascended and, yes, have overtaken others through violence and less than savory means. But that, as I hope you realize, can be a matter of perspective. The crusades are cited by leftists as an example of the evil of western culture. What they forget is that the first crusade was a legitimate response to the invading hordes of Islam (the "Religion of Peace"). Unlike you, I'm not going to apologize for the fact that some cultures ascend and others descend. It simply is a fact of human history and existence.

 

And one question, which constitutional right is offended by having Native American mascots (even one such as the Redskins)?

 

 

Don't get me wrong,Diver. I don't personally see them as wrong...but there are those that do. and I think it is wrong for us to criticize them for it. We are protected in this country against discrimination because of race, creed, or color...constitutionally. If the human rights commission is of the opinion that the use of these images and symbols (not necessarily names) is discriminatory or in any way infringes on these peoples human rights, there will be action taken. If even 1 person proves by a preponderance of evidence in a court of law that they have been harmed, schools nationwide will be scrambling to change.They won't wait for appeal. I can't say I agree with your comparison of the subjugation of our aboriginal population to the crusades...kinda like comparing apples to cucumbers.But is does allow you to pull a "GW" and attempt to insert the fear of Islamic Fundamentalism into the debate

 

I am afraid I don't understand the outrage here on the part of most of these posters. Our rights to the mascot of our choosing aren't constitutionally protected.

[DiverCity]

QUOTE(barb @ Jan 31 2007 - 09:40 AM) 826352799[/snapback]

Don't get me wrong,Diver. I don't personally see them as wrong...but there are those that do. and I think it is wrong for us to criticize them for it. We are protected in this country against discrimination because of race, creed, or color...constitutionally. If the human rights commission is of the opinion that the use of these images and symbols (not necessarily names) is discriminatory or in any way infringes on these peoples human rights, there will be action taken. If even 1 person proves by a preponderance of evidence in a court of law that they have been harmed, schools nationwide will be scrambling to change.They won't wait for appeal. I can't say I agree with your comparison of the subjugation of our aboriginal population to the crusades...kinda like comparing apples to cucumbers.But is does allow you to pull a "GW" and attempt to insert the fear of Islamic Fundamentalism into the debate

 

I am afraid I don't understand the outrage here on the part of most of these posters. Our rights to the mascot of our choosing aren't constitutionally protected.

 

 

 

Please don't confuse me with being a supporter of the neocon GW -- he's a nation-building Wilsonian liberal, and he was the one I was mocking with my reference to the Religion of Peace. I suppose we've worn out the topic enough, so I won't respond to everything you've stated, except to say that I still don't buy your contention that hurt feelings constitute a constitutional violation. You did state correctly that the Constitution protects certain classes of individuals against invidious discrimination. But lots of discrimination is not constitutionally suspect and therefore not invidious. (For example, I can be discriminated against in the provision of all kinds of governmental benefits because of my ethnicity). Fortunately, the Supreme Court still requires that there be a discrete violation of a constitutional provision by a governmental agency or department. Merely and loudly proclaiming "discrimination" doesn't do it, no matter what standard of proof you use. It's a major and treacherous leap from stating the truism that some of us are protected against discrimination because of race, religion, national origin, etc. to holding that school mascots are unconstitutional. No court of which I'm aware has ever held that ethnic mascots violate the Equal Protection Clause, which is the provision you're trying to invoke. Under current constitutional jurisprudence then, what you're saying just doesn't hold water. Heaven help us if the Supreme Court ever does adopt the standard of "harm" you advocate.

[ORidgeKat]

I would play for the REDNECKS, team colors would be camo with hunters orange numbers.

 

Tank, your wife was right, you are SATAN!