Private/Public Split Debate

[beavo5]

sarcasm...I get it. Points out how little you really know about the small privates. Also points our your fundamental mistake, that nicely maintained facilities = money = success on the field, or that success is always tied to size and speed.

 

Have you ever started a 150 pound lineman? I have...more than 1. Have you ever started a 5.0 40 running back? I have, more than one year. Last year when we played you guys I had a 145 pound 5.0 40 free safety as a starter. he started all year for us. In 02 and 03 our starting middle linebacker/offensive guard was a 5'10" 5.1 40 172 pounder. The guy next to him in 03 was his LITTLE brother. The other 2 linebackers were smaller than the 2 middle ones. When was the last time your linebackers averaged 161 pounds?

 

What happened to all those 6'2" 225 pound fast kids you ask? They evaporated (some recondensed at Baylor and McCallie lol), just like the cherry picking argument does when you look at it closely...

 

Just a simple question here from the cherry picking argument side: How does the cherry picking (as you called it) argument evaporate??? Cause if I am not mistaken I believe that Baylor and McCallie are Private schools!

[Indian]

What sarcasm? With all these hardships it's difficult to see why publics don't win 70 percent of the games instead of the other way arond.

[MetFan]

Just a simple question here from the cherry picking argument side: How does the cherry picking (as you called it) argument evaporate??? Cause if I am not mistaken I believe that Baylor and McCallie are Private schools!

 

 

They are private schools but they are DII and don't play publics for championships.

[beavo5]

They are private schools but they are DII and don't play publics for championships.

 

Oh ok thanks no one was answering my question!! I have another one.... why does everyone act like they are the ones with a disadvantage as a private school?

[Baldcoach]

Lets see our first football team was started in 1989 by a group of parents in the community. Those parents were given the LAND only they then raised money for LIGHTS and for GRASS SEED and SEATING. Notice I didn't say locker room, field house , stadium , weight room ,or concession stand oh yea we didn't have any of those until about 2003 When parents and coaches finally raised enough money for some of that. We still don't have a visitors locker room . or a practice field of any type. Coaches Mow the field with their mowers and their gas and buy paint with money raised. Your right tax money pays for the light bill.

Once again we are talking about the worst case public vs privates. Are you really claiming that all publics pay for all those things out of pocket? You can't be serious...

CAK isn't any good? They are very good last I checked. Grace Christian has made the playoffs the last 2 seasons with a 4 year old program. They too have better fascilities than any other team in the region. If those two are running in the red its because they spent 100 K on fields and fascilities.

Neither CAK nor Grace is as good as the local good publics. Don't make me name them, we all know who they are.

[Baldcoach]

Look at the fascilities at Cosby , Unaka , Cloudland , North Greene , and other small 1A publics in rural counties. Before you start throwing those names out any of these schools would trade with any of yours in a heart beat.

 

 

All the publics we play have as good as or better facilities than us. What don't you understand about comparing the worst case publics with the best case privates? I have never been to any of the schools you listed, but I am thinking you are shooting in the dark here...especially since you admitted you are only familiar with a few DI privates.

 

Simply put, if you take the best small public facilities and compare them to the best small private facilities they are at least as good. If you take the middle of the road facilities of either group you get the same results. But you are right, if you compare the poorest public schools with the best small private facilities the public facilities are worse. And, if you look at what taxes pay for in only the poorest counties then once again your arguments hold water...they just don't hold water for the vast majority of publics or privates.

 

Here is a better example...

 

South Pitt, one of the better small public programs in the state, is getting ready to build a new 9 million dollar gym paid for by taxes. Our entire campus didn't cost 9 million dollars. Our gym cost about 200000...it would convert to 800000 or so in today's dollars. It is 32 years old and doubles as the auditorium. Who has the better facilities? Whitwell (same county as South Pitt) has totally rebuilt their school buildings in the last 20 years or so. Both are 1a publics. Both have better facilities than us, or Chattanooga Christian, or Temple, or Silverdale, or Grace, or David Brainerd (and that completes the list).

[Baldcoach]

Just a simple question here from the cherry picking argument side: How does the cherry picking (as you called it) argument evaporate??? Cause if I am not mistaken I believe that Baylor and McCallie are Private schools!

 

 

They are DII big prep schools and are allowed to offer financial aid. Further, they have HUGE endowments (as do most DII schools) and charge mega tuitions. They are not Christian schools, so their focus and philosophy are completely different than the DI privates. And they have been around for 100 years...so they have thousands of wealthy alumni to draw upon.

 

But I'm glad you posted this, because I feel that this is one of the reasons that so many public supporters want a split. They simply don't understand that the DI privates are nothing like the DII schools in resources or philosophy or selective admissions. McCallie's athletic complex (wrestling + swimming + basketball + rockwall + Football locker rooms and showers) Cost our TOTAL operating budget for 4 years... and we are one of the larger and older DI privates in Chattanooga. There is simply no comparison. We dont have the money, time, inclination, or desire to go out and get the best athletes. We work with whoever walks through the door. Those kids who are really great athletes tend to go to the big publics or DII schools.

 

p.s. We get cherry picked worse than any small publics. We lose 2 or 3 of our best middle schoolers every year to the big preps. After all, since they can offer financial aid sometimes the kids can go there for the same money or less than what they pay to go to our school.

[Baldcoach]

What sarcasm? With all these hardships it's difficult to see why publics don't win 70 percent of the games instead of the other way arond.

 

 

 

Have you checked the records of publics that are within 30 miles of a major population center? They typically have every bit as good records as the small privates. It's about metro areas, not public private. You should be pushing for a metro/rural split.

[Baldcoach]

Oh ok thanks no one was answering my question!! I have another one.... why does everyone act like they are the ones with a disadvantage as a private school?

 

 

 

I don't think privates are disadvantaged. But this whole argument broke out because several posters claim that the DI privates have a huge financial advantage over the small publics and that they use those finances to get better athletes. I have simply been pointing out that 1) The small privates do NOT have more money than most small publics and 2) even if it weren't illegal to go recruit athletes most DI privates don't have the money to pay for recruited kids.

[beavo5]

They are DII big prep schools and are allowed to offer financial aid. Further, they have HUGE endowments (as do most DII schools) and charge mega tuitions. They are not Christian schools, so their focus and philosophy are completely different than the DI privates. And they have been around for 100 years...so they have thousands of wealthy alumni to draw upon.

 

But I'm glad you posted this, because I feel that this is one of the reasons that so many public supporters want a split. They simply don't understand that the DI privates are nothing like the DII schools in resources or philosophy or selective admissions. McCallie's athletic complex (wrestling + swimming + basketball + rockwall + Football locker rooms and showers) Cost our TOTAL operating budget for 4 years... and we are one of the larger and older DI privates in Chattanooga. There is simply no comparison. We dont have the money, time, inclination, or desire to go out and get the best athletes. We work with whoever walks through the door. Those kids who are really great athletes tend to go to the big publics or DII schools.

 

p.s. We get cherry picked worse than any small publics. We lose 2 or 3 of our best middle schoolers every year to the big preps. After all, since they can offer financial aid sometimes the kids can go there for the same money or less than what they pay to go to our school.

 

I understand that! May I ask when you say "we" you are associated with a school? and also may I ask what school?

[beavo5]

I don't think privates are disadvantaged. But this whole argument broke out because several posters claim that the DI privates have a huge financial advantage over the small publics and that they use those finances to get better athletes. I have simply been pointing out that 1) The small privates do NOT have more money than most small publics and 2) even if it weren't illegal to go recruit athletes most DI privates don't have the money to pay for recruited kids.

 

I didn't mean it like that! I understand the financial things! Small publics and DI privates get most of the money from tax payers! and the tuition from the DI privates goes towards the teachers and facility??

[Indian]

For the small privates, a rural-urban split would basically be the same as a public-private split. One might include Lookout Valley. Why would there be any less resistance to that. Regardless, don't be surprised to wake up soon and read about Boyd-Buchanan being placed in a sports region with Temple, Grace, Silverdale, Chattanooga Christian and David Brainerd, along with postseason competition such as CAK, Knoxville Grace and if you make it to Murfreesboro, Goodpasture. Maybe you can get Hamilton Heights in the basketball region since the 7-footer is graduating. I know it will sound so unfair, wow, a whole 5-10 miles between region games in town, plus McCallie, Baylor, MBA and all those dragons banished into a higher classification but I think Boyd-Buchanan will do alright.