Private/Public Split Debate

[reaction]

Ensworth won the DII girls title this year in...what...their 3rd year.

 

Aren't they D2? I'm sure Bald was talkin D1....

[Indian]

They are Division II. They beat a Knoxville Webb team that had one of the best players in the country, a 6'3" girl who signed with Tennessee; also a 6'4" post and a guard, both those will probably also sign Division I. I never saw Ensworth but they have to have some players to beat that group.

[supersteve17]

There is an advantage leaning toward private schools especially over 1A schools in Football. If they do away with the multiplier and Goodpasture , JCS , and maybe CAK drop back to 1A your 1A top 5 most years is going to be

1. Goodpasture

2. CAK

3. JCS

4. S.P. (yeah a public)

5. FCS

 

Someone tell me this wouldn't be true , You MIGHT be able to take FCS off and add a Trousdale or Gordonsville in some years but other than that the top three would dominate every year.

 

 

No offense to some of those schools but after Goodpasture you could put any one of ten or twelve schools (public and private) on that list IMHO. In fact, track record says South Pitt and Trousdale would be on that list more frequently than most private schools.

[Bighurt]

They are Division II. They beat a Knoxville Webb team that had one of the best players in the country, a 6'3" girl who signed with Tennessee; also a 6'4" post and a guard, both those will probably also sign Division I. I never saw Ensworth but they have to have some players to beat that group.

 

This is their 4th year of existence and they are D2 which means you are not comparing apples to apples. Also, you said it all when you said you had not seen Ensworth. Their one signee is Ricky Bowers daughter who signed with Lipscomb where Ricky went. Nice player but not a major Division I talent. Talent-wise there is no way they match up with Knox Webb.

 

And they are D2.

[supersteve17]

The point was mainly about girls basketball being the exception. There are probably several reasons, even Pat Summit and the Lady Vols' influence on girls growing up, but girls' basketball seems to be the only sport consistently dominated by the small publics. Softball, soccer and volleyball popularity in private schools is probably another reason. By dominating, I don't mean necessarily winning a state nearly every year like Alcoa football (some think that means the multiplier "works") I also mean regular season results and overall public-private disparity like the 67 percent total I mentioned in the other topic, 2A and 3A in 2007.

 

The part about Chattanooga Christian and Grace was saying even though they're rarely a match for the top level publics, they're still usually well above most of the A and AA public schools in Hamilton County. Tyner is an exception, Brainerd and Howard in some years but they should be with 800 to 1000 student enrollment.

 

 

Point well taken. What I am saying is that if it can be done in girl's basketball -- a sport requiring specific skills, athleticism and teamwork -- why can't that formula for success be duplicated in other sports in the public school setting? I believe it can.

[Indian]

Three of the seven years so far this decade South Pittsburg had at best, a mediocre team. One year they were just awful, finished 3-7 if I'm not mistaken after the paper picked them to go 9-1. Even this last year, as strong as they were, I don't think they'd have beaten Goodpasture or DCA. They struggled against Tyner who was mediocre overall and was flattened by DCA. The year before last I believe it was Gordonsville beating them soundly in the second round of the playoffs.

 

If all the current 2A privates fall back I'd expect a normal top 10 in 1A (actual best teams, not state rankings) to include the likes of Goodpasture, DCA, CPA, CAK, Boyd-Buchanan, Jackson Christian, Friendship and Chattanooga Grace. Silverdale and Knoxville Grace are really coming on quickly and you could see them in the mix every year. With their starting quarterback, I think BB would have beaten Smith, Meigs and Tyner.

 

Trousdale would be pushed up to 2A if all those dropped, so I can just see a few public teams, maybe South Pittsburg (some seasons), Gordonsville, a Hampton or McKenzie, ever providing much of a challenge for the state.

[Indian]

Point well taken. What I am saying is that if it can be done in girl's basketball -- a sport requiring specific skills, athleticism and teamwork -- why can't that formula for success be duplicated in other sports in the public school setting? I believe it can.

 

 

 

I think some of the smaller schools, especially in the midstate where there are so many good to very good programs, have not developed their other girls' sports, pushing basketball over the others. You could probably build a great football program if no attention was paid to anything else, but I wouldn't want boys' basketball and baseball to suffer with a lack of interest, administrative and fan support, and numbers. Look at South Pittsburg for an example. Ideally you could do well in all sports, McMinn Central would be an area example in boys if their football team continues to get better, but then again they have 800 students.

 

In basketball, boys and girls both, one obvious reason the privates and publics are closer than in other sports is the need for only five players at a time. In some cases you can get by with very little bench. With hard work, good coaching and the best overall talent that's come through here ever Seq got by using six, at most seven. The second girl off the bench probably got 5 minutes a game except in blowouts. Still they won 30 games. Those lack of numbers have hurt other sports here, or at least a lack of seniors as there's a ton of dropoff from the 9th grade to 12th grade year. One senior this school year in girls' basketball, one senior this year in softball and those are on good teams, so it's not just a boys' sports problem or when a team isn't successful.

 

I think the multiplier pushed up teams like Chattanooga Christian who've been good at the Class A level and would continue to be good though not a state title team. For the privates, girls' basketball was the least succesful of the sports to begin with and a muliplier probably wasn't needed. CCS had I believe 5 Division I signees this decade though I don't think all of them played/are playing at that level currently. Temple had one, I think Grace had one and the only other A or AA player I remember signing from Hamilton County was from Tyner, so among the small county schools the talent is still concentrated in the privates. It's outside the county where they run into trouble, teams like Sequatchie, McMinn Central, then Jackson County, etc further into the postseason. And again that's where you run into some schools who might sacrifice the other sports for one bell cow.

[OLD PIRATE]

No offense to some of those schools but after Goodpasture you could put any one of ten or twelve schools (public and private) on that list IMHO. In fact, track record says South Pitt and Trousdale would be on that list more frequently than most private schools.

 

Old Pirate says the Big disadvantage for SP & TC is they can't breed fast enough to keep up with all the privates recruiting. /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" />

[Grunt]

Old Pirate says the Big disadvantage for SP & TC is they can't breed fast enough to keep up with all the privates recruiting. /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" />

 

 

True! TC has applied for a license for a cloning clinic, as soon

as it becomes legal. We'll have Harpers, Dillehays, Satterfields,

etc. running out our ears. /roflolk.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflolk:" border="0" alt="roflolk.gif" />

[Baldcoach]

There is an advantage leaning toward private schools especially over 1A schools in Football. If they do away with the multiplier and Goodpasture , JCS , and maybe CAK drop back to 1A your 1A top 5 most years is going to be

1. Goodpasture

2. CAK

3. JCS

4. S.P. (yeah a public)

5. FCS

 

Someone tell me this wouldn't be true , You MIGHT be able to take FCS off and add a Trousdale or Gordonsville in some years but other than that the top three would dominate every year.

 

 

It won't be true because GP and CAK will be 2a with no mutliplier and year in year out FCS isn't as good as South Pitt or Trousdale. JCS isn't as good as DCA or CPA or SP or Trousdale or us year in year out. Again, your guesswork is not very informed, but even informed guesswork is still just that, guesswork.

[Indian]

Goodpasture and CAK will be close to the 1A/2A cutoff if the multiplier ends, right now it would be hard to tell. The last figures I saw them with, 360 and about 375, would have made them the third and fourth smallest 2As. That's before any new schools opening, new programs starting at existing schools, etc.

[Antwan]

Aren't they D2? I'm sure Bald was talkin D1....

 

 

He didn't say DI...he said NO private school had won a title in their 3rd year. This was Ensworth's

3rd year of varsity play.