Private/Public Split Debate

[old24eagle]

Once again we are talking about the worst case public vs privates. Are you really claiming that all publics pay for all those things out of pocket? You can't be serious...Neither CAK nor Grace is as good as the local good publics. Don't make me name them, we all know who they are.

 

O.K. baldy what level would you say BB is on this best v. worst scenario and then we will compare worst v. worst or whatever.

I pull for Cosby , we have a rich tradition in Basketball and have had a few good Football teams but recently have become very competitive in our region. I will admit we have one of the nicer Gyms in 1A. As for everything else well we have a decent weightroom in the gym that we share with every other sport and P.E. classes , we have a very small fieldhouse with no visitor locker room , no practice field , no maintenance crew to mow or paint , did I mention we share this field with boys and girls soccer , middle school and little league football and the elementary school uses it for playground fascilities all year long. We have a softball field that sits about 15 feet from the main highway and NO baseball field , our baseballers have to drive 20 minutes into town to practice and play on a city park field.

 

Our Football region consists of Cosby , Hampton , Grace , Unaka , Cloudland , Jellico . Now Grace which is private and had sports for 4-5 years has the nicest fascilities in the region , and the rest of them would most likely trade with Cosby even though you can clearly see the situation were in.

 

Your righ Grace can't compete with K-town schools YET!! But CAK can. I would put them in the top 3-4 behind Fulton , Catholic , Bearden, and maybe AE. CAK would destroy Gibbs , Carter , Webb , West , and maybe even Central and Farragut.

[reaction]

CAK played Webb last year. I wouldn't call losing 42-14 destroying them. Doubt CAK would destroy Farragut, as they were about even with Bearden.

[old24eagle]

CAK played Webb last year. I wouldn't call losing 42-14 destroying them. Doubt CAK would destroy Farragut, as they were about even with Bearden.

 

They beat yall , and played 2 decent games with SUPER PUBLIC Alcoa!

[reaction]

They beat yall , and played 2 decent games with SUPER PUBLIC Alcoa!

 

With your point being? That their above average facilities lead them to a victory over Boyd, and 2 decent games with Super Public Alcoa?

[old24eagle]

With your point being? That their above average facilities lead them to a victory over Boyd, and 2 decent games with Super Public Alcoa?

 

No My point being that they have done the same uncanny unthinkable thing that Grace is currently doing. A thing that only a school that can get players from all over the place and a school with $$$ and fascilities can do. 5 years ago everyone in TN. could wipe the field with CAK and Grace did not even have a program. NOW CAK is a threat to win the toughest 2A region in the state and Grace will most likely win Region 1 1A next season. Quite a move in such a short time for a couple of poor little private schools. NAAAAH there is no advantage /blink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blink:" border="0" alt="blink.gif" />

[Indian]

They'll bring up Ravenwood but that's not a good comparison. Maybe they can figure out why.

[OLD PIRATE]

All the publics we play have as good as or better facilities than us. What don't you understand about comparing the worst case publics with the best case privates? I have never been to any of the schools you listed, but I am thinking you are shooting in the dark here...especially since you admitted you are only familiar with a few DI privates.

 

Simply put, if you take the best small public facilities and compare them to the best small private facilities they are at least as good. If you take the middle of the road facilities of either group you get the same results. But you are right, if you compare the poorest public schools with the best small private facilities the public facilities are worse. And, if you look at what taxes pay for in only the poorest counties then once again your arguments hold water...they just don't hold water for the vast majority of publics or privates.

 

Here is a better example...

 

South Pitt, one of the better small public programs in the state, is getting ready to build a new 9 million dollar gym paid for by taxes. Our entire campus didn't cost 9 million dollars. Our gym cost about 200000...it would convert to 800000 or so in today's dollars. It is 32 years old and doubles as the auditorium. Who has the better facilities? Whitwell (same county as South Pitt) has totally rebuilt their school buildings in the last 20 years or so. Both are 1a publics. Both have better facilities than us, or Chattanooga Christian, or Temple, or Silverdale, or Grace, or David Brainerd (and that completes the list).

 

Old Pirate says might think about not giving away those future preacher scholarships or have the boosters donate to the building fund! /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" />

[OLD PIRATE]

They are DII big prep schools and are allowed to offer financial aid. Further, they have HUGE endowments (as do most DII schools) and charge mega tuitions. They are not Christian schools, so their focus and philosophy are completely different than the DI privates. And they have been around for 100 years...so they have thousands of wealthy alumni to draw upon.

 

But I'm glad you posted this, because I feel that this is one of the reasons that so many public supporters want a split. They simply don't understand that the DI privates are nothing like the DII schools in resources or philosophy or selective admissions. McCallie's athletic complex (wrestling + swimming + basketball + rockwall + Football locker rooms and showers) Cost our TOTAL operating budget for 4 years... and we are one of the larger and older DI privates in Chattanooga. There is simply no comparison. We dont have the money, time, inclination, or desire to go out and get the best athletes. We work with whoever walks through the door. Those kids who are really great athletes tend to go to the big publics or DII schools.

 

p.s. We get cherry picked worse than any small publics. We lose 2 or 3 of our best middle schoolers every year to the big preps. After all, since they can offer financial aid sometimes the kids can go there for the same money or less than what they pay to go to our school.

 

Lose 2 or 3 a year? Wow, Old Pirate says BB has a lot of young talent coming up around there. They must eat their Wheaties ................ Unbelievable statement.

"9" Million........................ you've got that wrong. It is not a gym only either. You must have gotten your info from some misguided Whitwell fan.

[reaction]

They'll bring up Ravenwood but that's not a good comparison. Maybe they can figure out why.

 

Ok what about Independence? haha

They haven't had a program that long have they? In the title game last year, even though they did get whipped. But oh ya they are 5A that cancels them out..

 

We may have another example soon enough once Signal Mountain gets going. But I'm sure if they are successful in a short period of time, another excuse will emerge of why you can't compare them either.. /dry.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

[Indian]

A brand new school at the 4A or 5A level, formed from one, maybe two others, is a lot different than a small private that has students coming in from an entire metro area.

[Bighurt]

This is my last post on this topic because I am tired of -

Thanks for posting this, Antwan!

 

3 final points -

 

1. I don't know where the urban legend that private schools get their students from all over Nashville or all over Knoxville or Chattanooga or from "9 counties" comes from - actually, "9 counties" from from Friendship Christian's website. In practice, D1 private schools get their students from a geographic zone that does not differ greatly from a public school zone. For example, 99% of CPA's students (and athletes) come from a 10-mile radius of the school.

 

You say that is a pretty big zone. But within that 10-mile radius, there are the following private schools (off the top of my head) - MBA, Ensworth, Brentwood Academy, FRA, Harpeth Hall, Father Ryan, Lipscomb and Nashville Christian - along with public schools like Brentwood, Overton, Hillwood, Hillsboro and Franklin who may be competing for the same students. As a D1 school CPA cannot offer financial aid, so that further diminishes the pool. You have to find kids with a lot of options whose parents can also afford the tuition. So to use BB's analogy, the pool is wide and long but not deep.

 

2. If money and nice facilities automatically meant success how would MBA, Ensworth, McCallie, Baylor, MUS, etc. ever lose? MBA did not win a state football championship in the 30 years before D2. Baylor and MUS won one. McCallie won zero. Yes, BA won 8 before D2 but Maryville has won 10 and Alcoa has won 9.

 

3. Don't accuse me of moaning that we can't compete. My stance is the multiplier is in place and D2 is in place. We will make out. Let's just shut up and play some ball.

 

JMHO

[supersteve17]

For the small privates, a rural-urban split would basically be the same as a public-private split. One might include Lookout Valley. Why would there be any less resistance to that. Regardless, don't be surprised to wake up soon and read about Boyd-Buchanan being placed in a sports region with Temple, Grace, Silverdale, Chattanooga Christian and David Brainerd, along with postseason competition such as CAK, Knoxville Grace and if you make it to Murfreesboro, Goodpasture. Maybe you can get Hamilton Heights in the basketball region since the 7-footer is graduating. I know it will sound so unfair, wow, a whole 5-10 miles between region games in town, plus McCallie, Baylor, MBA and all those dragons banished into a higher classification but I think Boyd-Buchanan will do alright.

 

 

I guess it depends on your definition of "doing alright."

 

BBS was "doing alright" as far as I was concerned throughout the 80's and 90's before they started to emerge as a factor/power in football. They have done "alright" the last three or so years since the multiplier in spite of the fact that they have won only one title in a men's sport since the x-er kicked in.

 

IMHO BBS will do "alright" if she never wins another football game or even has a football team because her mission is about something more than that. The TSSAA (comprised of 80+% public school membership and 90% public school leadership) will place us in whatever sports region they want. We will do "alright." That still doesn't make what the TSSAA leadership/membership decides all right.