WHY THE HATE?

[PBandJ]

I know these posters have to understand the apples and oranges in comparing public and private test scores, college success and business success, I don't understand why they're ignoring it in their arguments.

 

In terms of experiences, teacher-student ratios, attention, and on and on - the experiences between the two are apples to oranges. You've never heard me say any different here. It is why homeschool and private schools are growing.

 

But in terms of test scores, it is apples to apples. The test scores are standardized tests. They span every child that must either test out of a grade or go to college. The tests do not change or alter per student.

 

The averages per school is where you get hung up. If a school (public or private) has a higher average test score, that means they are pushing their kids to learn. Kids aren't being taught to the lowest common denominator. It means there are other kids in the school that will push other kids. The test itself isn't apples-oranges, it is the experience that is.

[Antwan]

In terms of experiences, teacher-student ratios, attention, and on and on - the experiences between the two are apples to oranges. You've never heard me say any different here. It is why homeschool and private schools are growing.

 

But in terms of test scores, it is apples to apples. The test scores are standardized tests. They span every child that must either test out of a grade or go to college. The tests do not change or alter per student.

 

The averages per school is where you get hung up. If a school (public or private) has a higher average test score, that means they are pushing their kids to learn. Kids aren't being taught to the lowest common denominator. It means there are other kids in the school that will push other kids. The test itself isn't apples-oranges, it is the experience that is.

 

 

Like I said before...privates are all college prep kids. Publics are not...so the bottom line is skewed...somewhat.

 

You were talking about graduates of a certain private school excelling. When I was in high school here...I had 2 classes which had 10 students in each class. The classes were advanced math and physics. Out of those 10...all graduated from college. One is the rocket scientist...one graduated at the top of Vanderbilt's med school (heart surgeon). One got his masters from UT. One is a corporate lawyer that graduated with top honors from University of Virginia. One is doing medical research (a former brain surgeon). He graduated with top honors from UK med school. That's just in my class.

 

By the way...when one of your kids graduate college...give me a call if they are in any of these fields. If they excel enough...maybe I can put in a good word to help get them a top level job. /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" /> Of course...they may have to check their grammar school records.

[PBandJ]

Like I said before...privates are all college prep kids. Publics are not...so the bottom line is skewed...somewhat.

 

You were talking about graduates of a certain private school excelling. When I was in high school here...I had 2 classes which had 10 students in each class. The classes were advanced math and physics. Out of those 10...all graduated from college. One is the rocket scientist...one graduated at the top of Vanderbilt's med school (heart surgeon). One got his masters from UT. One is a corporate lawyer that graduated with top honors from University of Virginia. One is doing medical research (a former brain surgeon). He graduated with top honors from UK med school. That's just in my class.

 

By the way...when one of your kids graduate college...give me a call if they are in any of these fields. If they excel enough...maybe I can put in a good word to help get them a top level job. /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" /> Of course...they may have to check their grammar school records.

 

Ah, thanks for the offer. You can never have enough connections. /cool.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="B)" border="0" alt="cool.gif" /> (Although, you know me - you just don't know it.)

[Antwan]

Ah, thanks for the offer. You can never have enough connections. /cool.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="B)" border="0" alt="cool.gif" /> (Although, you know me - you just don't know it.)

 

 

You might be surprised. /ohmy.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":o" border="0" alt="ohmy.gif" />

[Bighurt]

Bottom line - students can get a good education at a public school just like they can at a private school. Parents can and do make choices as to where to sent their kids based on a variety of factors. Ultimately, only the parent(s) and their child should choose what is best for their particular student.

[fiftyfifty]

Bottom line - students can get a good education at a public school just like they can at a private school. Parents can and do make choices as to where to sent their kids based on a variety of factors. Ultimately, only the parent(s) and their child should choose what is best for their particular student.

 

I would agree that you can get a good education at some public schools in some counties in the state of Tennessee. But I am alarmed that some people still fail to recognize that the public education in our state is in bad need of repair. I am speaking state-wide. In Davidson county, the public schools were performing so poorly that the state had to take control of many of those schools. There are other counties in the same shape. I am not comparing public to private in my comment. I find it comical that a sports thread will ultimately always turn into a confrontation between public and private. But I hope that public school parents will become ever more vigilant in their demand for nothing less than superior education, teachers, facilities in every public school in all counties in this state. The state of Tennessee is ranked approximately 43 or 44 lowest out of fifty states. That is disgraceful. The state of Tennessee can build stadiums for football, pro basketball while the public education stats continue to fall. Don't be lulled to sleep, this is a problem that will affect generations if a solution is not found in a hurry. /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

[Indian]

Is it the schools/teachers or the parents/students? I saw an article about a month ago in the Chattanooga paper about a Howard graduate starting a career as a pharmacist, it was a regular feature about local job promotions, business news, etc. Howard has been among the lowest-performing high schools in the state but it didn't hold him back.

[Antwan]

I would agree that you can get a good education at some public schools in some counties in the state of Tennessee. But I am alarmed that some people still fail to recognize that the public education in our state is in bad need of repair. I am speaking state-wide. In Davidson county, the public schools were performing so poorly that the state had to take control of many of those schools. There are other counties in the same shape. I am not comparing public to private in my comment. I find it comical that a sports thread will ultimately always turn into a confrontation between public and private. But I hope that public school parents will become ever more vigilant in their demand for nothing less than superior education, teachers, facilities in every public school in all counties in this state. The state of Tennessee is ranked approximately 43 or 44 lowest out of fifty states. That is disgraceful. The state of Tennessee can build stadiums for football, pro basketball while the public education stats continue to fall. Don't be lulled to sleep, this is a problem that will affect generations if a solution is not found in a hurry. /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

 

 

Who doesn't recognize the state of public education in especially Davidson County? I think that's obvious. What to do about it is the question. I think the problem is much deeper than that. It's the state of this country in inner cities mostly. The broken homes and non-participation of parents. It's people that think the government owes them a living. Until that cycle is broken...you won't see much improvement. Frankly...I don't ever see that happening.

[fiftyfifty]

Is it the schools/teachers or the parents/students? I saw an article about a month ago in the Chattanooga paper about a Howard graduate starting a career as a pharmacist, it was a regular feature about local job promotions, business news, etc. Howard has been among the lowest-performing high schools in the state but it didn't hold him back.

 

 

I would vote parents, students out of that group. And yes some children will rise up from whats seems an impossible situation and still be successful. But many more children need an example when they walk into school. An example of order, dedication, and definitive goals that are attainable. They need an atmosphere of you have to work to pass, not just being passed to get rid of them. I know college graduates who can't read, write on a grade school level. This is not the fault of the college, but their grade, middle, and high school educators, and parents. We are one of the most powerful countries in the world, but many countries have surpassed us in public education. What lies ahead. /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

[fiftyfifty]

Who doesn't recognize the state of public education in especially Davidson County? I think that's obvious. What to do about it is the question. I think the problem is much deeper than that. It's the state of this country in inner cities mostly. The broken homes and non-participation of parents. It's people that think the government owes them a living. Until that cycle is broken...you won't see much improvement. Frankly...I don't ever see that happening.

 

Thats what is scary Antwain. I think many, many people don't recognize the problem. And if they do, why is there not more of an outcry to fix this problem. This will affect me and you and everyone in the future. /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

[Baldcoach]

I would vote parents, students out of that group. And yes some children will rise up from whats seems an impossible situation and still be successful. But many more children need an example when they walk into school. An example of order, dedication, and definitive goals that are attainable. They need an atmosphere of you have to work to pass, not just being passed to get rid of them. I know college graduates who can't read, write on a grade school level. This is not the fault of the college, but their grade, middle, and high school educators. We are one of the most powerful countries in the world, but many countries have surpassed us in public education. What lies ahead. /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

 

 

 

If a child comes to 1st grade and can't count to 10, say their ABC's, read or speak English in a reasonable manner all the research shows that unless that child is WAY above average in intelligence they are never going to catch up. Disintegrated families and parents who don't value traditional education (as opposed to street education) are the primary causes of poor public school performance imho. You will notice if you look at the data that Shelby, Davidson, Hamilton, and Knox counties are always among the lowest in the state even though they spend more money per student than most of the others. The reason is the state of the inner cities and specifically the state of the families in our inner city communities.

 

I have a very good friend who is the principal of an inner city elementary school here in the 'nooga. When NCLB went into effect one of the mandates was that anyone who had school age children HAD to put them in school to keep their government housing. That year her school got 65 new students ages 6-10 who had NEVER been to school. The same story was repeated all over the city and I would guess in all the major metro areas in Tennessee. Those kids will never catch up, no matter how good their teachers and facilities are.

 

I don't know the solution...

 

p.s. US ed vs other countries is an invalid comparison. Every other country on the planet recognizes that some kids simply aren't cut out for college and has several filters in place to get those students out of the college bound schools and into trade/technical schools. When the comparisons come out between US schools and other countries' schools it is like comparing normal school kids to fast track kids...of course other countries beat us. It's a wonder and I think says great things about our system that we beat ANY other industrialized nations.

[MVM]

Thats what is scary Antwain. I think many, many people don't recognize the problem. And if they do, why is there not more of an outcry to fix this problem. This will affect me and you and everyone in the future. /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

 

The outcry isn't there, because it's easier to just move your child to a private school. I do believe that most private school parents are middle class families doing what they feel is best for there child. To be honest if my child was not in the honor courses at our local public school, then we would be in a private school.

 

And Baldcoach /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" />

 

"p.s. US ed vs other countries is an invalid comparison. Every other country on the planet recognizes that some kids simply aren't cut out for college and has several filters in place to get those students out of the college bound schools and into trade/technical schools. When the comparisons come out between US schools and other countries' schools it is like comparing normal school kids to fast track kids...of course other countries beat us. It's a wonder and I think says great things about our system that we beat ANY other industrialized nations."