simple way to look at private -vs- public debate

[Indian]

Posted by OnlineLC:

pujo,

 

Not all Private Schools are intent on separating on what most would term as desireables and non-desirebales. Attached is a link to Salama Ministries which deals with high risk kids from the inner city of Nashville. CPA has a very close link with Salama and over the years have enrolled kids under scholarships provided by Salama. Under the rules of the TSSAA I doubt these kids would be allowed to play athletics.

 

http://www.christpres.org/ministry/Salama.htm

 

If CPA was in Division II, wouldn't every student be eligible to play? Wouldnt' that be more important than desire to keep things as they are just because private schools don't want to be told what to do? None of the excuses for keeping things together would be worth everyone getting to play, right?

[Edited by Indian on 10-5-02 2:21P]

 

[pujo]

I,m not sure but I think they have some loop holes to get these kid legal to play sports.

[OnlineLC]

Indian,

 

In answer to your question I don't think these kids would even qualify in Div II since under the TSSAA guidellines, all Financial Aid must use the School and Student Scholastic Aid service for Financial Aid Service of Prineceton, NJ. This is a totally separate ministry and the kids would not be eligible.

[Edited by OnlineLC on 10-5-02 2:32P]

 

[Indian]

Posted by OnlineLC:

Indian,

 

In answer to your question I don't think these kids would even qualify in Div II since under the TSSAA guidellines, all Financial Aid must use the School and Student Scholastic Aid service for Financial Aid Service of Prineceton, NJ. This is a totally separate ministry and the kids would not be eligible.

[Edited by OnlineLC on 10-5-02 2:32P]

 

Why would it matter where the aid came from since Division II is in a different division? And if they're not eligible change the rule should CPA and the rest go II.

[OnlineLC]

The only loophole I have seen is about 4-5 years ago when a family took the role of Guardianship over a boy and he was able to play football.

 

Their guardianship had nothing to do with athletics when they started the process and it was a multi year commitment. It was labor of love for the boy and not a loophole to get him to play football.

 

Posted by pujo:

I,m not sure but I think they have some loop holes to get these kid legal to play sports.

[OnlineLC]

These are the TSSAA Div II rules on eligibility for Football. It is not allowed at all in Div I. It is part of their bylaws and all Div II schools have to follow the process laid out to give Financial Aid. I am not sure where it all came from but it is to prevent Financial Aid being given out for Athletics alone and hence they use a third party to validate the applications.

 

Posted by Indian:

Posted by OnlineLC:

Indian,

 

In answer to your question I don't think these kids would even qualify in Div II since under the TSSAA guidellines, all Financial Aid must use the School and Student Scholastic Aid service for Financial Aid Service of Prineceton, NJ. This is a totally separate ministry and the kids would not be eligible.

[Edited by OnlineLC on 10-5-02 2:32P]

 

Why would it matter where the aid came from since Division II is in a different division? And if they're not eligible change the rule should CPA and the rest go II.

[Indian]

Posted by OnlineLC:

These are the TSSAA Div II rules on eligibility for Football. It is not allowed at all in Div I. It is part of their bylaws and all Div II schools have to follow the process laid out to give Financial Aid. I am not sure where it all came from but it is to prevent Financial Aid being given out for Athletics alone and hence they use a third party to validate the applications.

 

I am a little lost, The financial aid service couldn't check the ministry aid students, to make sure if they would be eiligble to play sports in D2 (and attend of course), but who checks to see if they are eligible to attend CPA, athletes or not? Would their grades not be good enough if they were not low-income? If they are, then they should be eligible in D2.

[OnlineLC]

Indian,

 

I'm not sure about all the details, but it is Salama minstries who provide the scholarship for the child. I don't believe their decision is based upon academics alone, rather they focus on kids at risk. As such I don't believe Salama want a 3rd party saying who and who does not qualify. Hence the simplest choice is not go thru the Div II process and let them attend the school.

 

If a child wants to focus on athletics, then a transfer to a public school would be required.

 

 

Posted by Indian:

I am a little lost, The financial aid service couldn't check the ministry aid students, to make sure if they would be eiligble to play sports in D2 (and attend of course), but who checks to see if they are eligible to attend CPA, athletes or not? Would their grades not be good enough if they were not low-income? If they are, then they should be eligible in D2.

[silverpie]

Posted by OnlineLC:

pujo,

 

CPA has a very close link with Salama and over the years have enrolled kids under scholarships provided by Salama. Under the rules of the TSSAA I doubt these kids would be allowed to play athletics.

 

http://www.christpres.org/ministry/Salama.htm

 

There would be two issues. First, if the arrangement constituted undue influence, they would definitely be ineligible. If it did not, they would still only be allowed to play if CPA took Division II status. (And Princeton's involvement is not to give the scholarships--where they come from is not an issue. Their role is to determine the amount that may be given as need-based aid.)

[Edited by silverpie on 10-5-02 7:09P]

 

[OnlineLC]

Thanks for the clarification silverpie on the role of Princeton.

 

I am not close enough to the situation with Salama to know how they prefer to operate. I am assuming that as both Salama and CPC are ministries of Christ Pres Chuch, they still prefer to keep the level of financial support within their own decision making process. From what I have seen of Salama I don't believe athletics is part of their concern, it is more a question of providing a better opportunities for kids. Most of their finances go toward providing summer camps etc for the kids and occasionally they will provide a CPA scholarship.

 

If Bighurt is reading this I believe he is a Board Member of the school and is closely involved with the church and may be able to give some insight if I have accidentally misrepresented the case.

 

Posted by silverpie:

Posted by OnlineLC:

pujo,

 

CPA has a very close link with Salama and over the years have enrolled kids under scholarships provided by Salama. Under the rules of the TSSAA I doubt these kids would be allowed to play athletics.

 

http://www.christpres.org/ministry/Salama.htm

 

There would be two issues. First, if the arrangement constituted undue influence, they would definitely be ineligible. If it did not, they would still only be allowed to play if CPA took Division II status. (And Princeton's involvement is not to give the scholarships--where they come from is not an issue. Their role is to determine the amount that may be given as need-based aid.)

[Edited by silverpie on 10-5-02 7:09P]

[swamp]

Posted by KCHSCoach:

1. Private schools would not be in existence if public schools were doing there jobs.

 

2. So fix public schools in Tennessee, get "your community" to raise taxes to build buildings and hire coaches. I think it is unfaire that public schools have a default monopoly on students because a lot of people can not afford tuition at a private school and still pay taxes to support public schools that they have very little say in.

 

So here is the answer that should make everyone happy

 

3. legalize school vouchers so everyone can send their kid to the school of their choice. so quit petioning the TSSAA and instead call your State represenative. Lets end the inefficent monopoly we call public education and lets have academic freedom of choice.

 

I agree with pt. 1; You can't do #2, thanks to the feds and certain lobbies, and 3 would just make private schools as bad as the underachieving publics and open the door for the feds to regulate them, too.

 

The answer to better schools is to make all schools private and restore local control. But that has little to do with the sports aspect.

[catsfan01]

for all you private school supp. let me pose to you a ? lets say for instance that tssaa in all there infinite wisdom were to say that starting next year all private schools in div.I would be competing at the 5A level would that be fair to you ? and i know what you are thinking "that like comparing apples and oranges" but its not look at it this way wayne county high pulls its players from an area with a pop. of about 3500 people, where as ezell pulls its players from davidson county pop. somewhere upwards of 600,000 now as someone has already said they dont have all those kids just there for them but if you take just 10% of that population you have 60,000 which is still much larger than the towns most 5A schools pull from.