simple way to look at private -vs- public debate

[imasoftballer]

I did not know that is why I asked!!!

How many went to college, anywhere? To play football.

[pujo]

I agree with you about all private schools not being the same but there is no way of dealing with one of them without treating all of them the same.There has never been any proof shown that any of them are doing anything crooked.Some of them are just taking full advantage to be the best in several sports.They know what they are doing and loving it.They are not big enough to move up on their on, so we have to group all of them together .Idon,t like it and its not fair but what other choice do we have.

[lazarus]

right now a handful of private schools are garnering big numbers of state "championships". as a matter of fact, they are pretty well collecting them all.

 

those schools can virtually offer state championship experience as a part of their curriculum. maybe not a title, but certainly championship level play. two of those schools each sent teams to over half the state team championship tournaments/meets/etc that were held last year. several others were close.

 

if i sent my kid to one of those schools for 4 years, i would be almost guaranteed that my kid would get to "go to the state". all the other schools in those divisions do is subsidize the state championship part of the powerhouse curriculum. perhaps you dont believe that a near guarantee of playing at the "state" is a selling point to prospective customers?

 

as long as debate on this topic splits along private/public lines, those few schools have the protection of allies of necessity, all the other private schools must side with them. a total split would only hurt the non-powerhouse privates. a multiplier would rocket them into divisions where they would not be able to compete (and two wrongs dont make a right). so as long as the "solution" involves a universal change, affecting all privates, those schools have to side with you to keep from getting into an even worse situation.

 

but the truth is, the publics and the majority of the privates are in the same boat. they have more in common with each other than they do with the powerhouses.

 

if the public supporters were smart, they would simply take all the private schools in single A and give them a secret ballot vote: where do you think the other private schools should be classed. those schools know (and as someone mentioned earlier, would surprise the public folks with what they REALLY think) who aint where they belong, and theyd boot those schools up the food chain in a minute.

 

so it seems to me that, while you are remarkably silent on some of the most damning numbers, when the public & private posters as a whole start to show signs of realizing that they are actually in the same boat, you begin blowing smoke in all directions.

 

would you consider it an acceptable solution to put your school's classification up to a vote of ONLY the other private schools? i would.

[JaxMan]

I really do not claim to have the answer. I do not think punishing innocent is the answer. There was a thread on here a month or so ago that was posted in humor or sarcaism that may be the answer. When a team wins a title they move up one classification. Maybe the last place team in a classification moves down, I don't know. Maybe a multiplier is the right choice. I want my team to stay in the Div 1 class. The truth is this issue is really not about fair...it's about schools who want to win and can't. My school although private is not winning any titles or making it past the quarter finals. Yet we are lumped with privates who bend rules in the name of being fair...I simply miss the sense of that. I wish I had the answer...I don't...and after reading these posts on this board for about six weeks I haven't seen many good ideas. Mainly I see people who attack the other points of view and are willing to say or do anything to prove their point. What is needed is an answer that does not put any school at a disadvantage. Public or privates who are not bending rules. Being good is not unfair. And regardless of what changes are made their will always be schools with disadvantages. We can't handicap the football system like a golf tournement.

[Bighurt]

Posted by imasoftballer:

I did not know that is why I asked!!!

How many went to college, anywhere? To play football.

 

I don't know of any others from 2001 Ezell that are playing football. Julian Terrell is playing basketball at Vandy.

 

From Goodpasture, their QB from last year was getting some feelers as a DB or LB. Someone else will know though.

[RealGoEagles]

This could be another case of the academics. How many of those kids from Trousdale were DI caliber? How many went? What about South Pitt? Some of their best athletes got busted on drug charges this summer.

 

The college argument has less to do with a talent disparity and more to do with a discipline academics disparity.

[VolunteerGeneral]

softballer...USJ has had one of the better teams the last several years. In fact, with the exception of not actually winning the state title, they have probably had more success in football than any other private school in the last 10 years. To the best of my knowledge, since the late 70`s USJ has had 3 Div.I signees. They were all in the nineties since Marley got there in 89.

 

1.Trey Teague....signed with those beloved Vols and now is a starter for the Buffalo Bills. (please don`t think there was any recruiting. There have been Teagues at that school since forever.)

 

2.Alex Londe....he graduated the year after Trey in 94 and signed with Missouri. However, I don`t believe that he was there more than a year or two.

 

 

3.Franklin Payne...signed with Illinois last year.

 

 

That`s it as far as Div. I signees.

 

I don`t think you can say that kids come to USJ so they can play big time college ball(I`m not saying that you said that, just stating an opinion)I can say this though Mickey marley knows how to get the best out of his kids. Take this years team. There are no big time prospects playing. USJ lost a ton of good kids last year. Six of them had made all state. This years team is winning on teamwork and determination. They are much like Cloudland. They put up some gaudy numbers last year. This year they are getting by. Last year in the regular season, they blew out Bruceton and Parsons Riverside. This year they won 21-20 against Bruceton when Patrick Willis was tackled on the one foot line on a two point conversion at the end of the game. They beat Riverside 14-0. Yes they have a good team, but they can be beat if they don`t come ready to play.

 

Anyways...3 Div. I signees in over 20 years is not exactly setting the recruiting world on fire.

[VolunteerGeneral]

Posted by lazarus:

where did you get your power to define the debate? did you become the moderator? since you would so like to dilute the discussion, why stop with magnet schools & memphis zones, why not throw in the kenyan & jamaican junior track programs. they have loaded the world record books for decades with undocumented (no birth certificate) "juniors" of indeterminate age.

 

 

 

Laz...the topic was discussed last night and the general consensus was that public magnet schools have an unfair advantage over rural public schools because of the large area in which they obtain students. Sorry you missed out on the discussion. This discussion has been out there for quite some time. Did you have an opinion about the subject?

 

 

VG (just trying to keep Laz up to date)

[KCHSCoach]

1. Private schools would not be in existence if public schools were doing there jobs.

 

2. So fix public schools in Tennessee, get "your community" to raise taxes to build buildings and hire coaches. I think it is unfaire that public schools have a default monopoly on students because a lot of people can not afford tuition at a private school and still pay taxes to support public schools that they have very little say in.

 

So here is the answer that should make everyone happy

 

3. legalize school vouchers so everyone can send their kid to the school of their choice. so quit petioning the TSSAA and instead call your State represenative. Lets end the inefficent monopoly we call public education and lets have academic freedom of choice.

[pujo]

Your statement is the farthest thing from the truth.Private schools were started to seperate the desirables from the undesirables.Private schools will not take just anyone and if it were not for public schools,we would have a ton of people without any education.Public schools could be much better,but if you will look around in this world of ours, you will see that the wealthy are the ones who make the rules.As long as their kids are getting an education,why should they care about the rest.

[BDURHAM]

KCHS, I appreciated your post, and I am giving you a good mark. But, I disagree with your comments.

 

1. False assumption -- private schools were in existence long before there were "problems" with public schools. Private schools such as Baylor, Castle Heights and CMA offered an alternative type of education. There have been parochial schools since education started. There have been schools such as Phillips Andover, MBA, Webb, etc., for educational purposes that almost no public schools will ever be able to match.

 

2. Most of the public educational problems have nothing to do with bricks and mortar, nor coaches. The problem with public education has become more "cultural" than physical. A few decades ago, the issue of equal opportunity created a busing solution that virtually solved nothing. The present problem is that too many families in every "community" don't place a high priority on education nor proper parenting. In other words, we've got a slacking problem, not an opportunity problem.

 

3. Sending a kid to "any" school will not solve the problem. The public and private schools that thrive in metro and urban areas have entrance exams. Although it will never be a "popular" decision, there needs to be educational choices within the public school system so that children can learn and excel.

 

In the proper list of priorities, football classifications is secondary, not a primary consideration. Extra-curricular activities are vital for a successful education, but the tail doesn't wag the dog.

 

Academic freedom of choice is important, but will never be a reality for everyone. When people who have institutional control over education choose to corrupt the system by denying an equal education to someone because of their race, economic or social standing, there is a problem. Moreover, when individuals in control of a particular school choose to place an improper emphasis on athletics and circumvent the rules, there is a problem.

 

We don't need bigger and better buildings. We need better thinking and stronger commitments on all our parts to build a better society so that the most unfortunate members of our society have a fair chance to determine their own destiny. I don't understand how bigger buildings, more football coaches and vouchers will change things.

 

I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with private schools. Moreover, I don't think there is necessarily anything lacking in public schools.

 

Families are not sending their kids to private schools because the public schools are not big enough or lack the proper number or quality of coaches.

 

Would you rather send your child to a public school which would give your child an opportunity to attend Harvard, or would you rather send your child to a private school with big buildings and lots of coaches and a chance to win the state championship?

 

 

Posted by KCHSCoach:

1. Private schools would not be in existence if public schools were doing there jobs.

 

2. So fix public schools in Tennessee, get "your community" to raise taxes to build buildings and hire coaches. I think it is unfaire that public schools have a default monopoly on students because a lot of people can not afford tuition at a private school and still pay taxes to support public schools that they have very little say in.

 

So here is the answer that should make everyone happy

 

3. legalize school vouchers so everyone can send their kid to the school of their choice. so quit petioning the TSSAA and instead call your State represenative. Lets end the inefficent monopoly we call public education and lets have academic freedom of choice.

[Edited by StanTrott on 10-5-02 2:21P]

 

[OnlineLC]

pujo,

 

Not all Private Schools are intent on separating on what most would term as desireables and non-desirebales. Attached is a link to Salama Ministries which deals with high risk kids from the inner city of Nashville. CPA has a very close link with Salama and over the years have enrolled kids under scholarships provided by Salama. Under the rules of the TSSAA I doubt these kids would be allowed to play athletics.

 

http://www.christpres.org/ministry/Salama.htm

 

 

 

 

Posted by pujo:

Your statement is the farthest thing from the truth.Private schools were started to seperate the desirables from the undesirables.Private schools will not take just anyone and if it were not for public schools,we would have a ton of people without any education.Public schools could be much better,but if you will look around in this world of ours, you will see that the wealthy are the ones who make the rules.As long as their kids are getting an education,why should they care about the rest.