D2 AAA

[TTate]

2 hours ago, MichaelMyers76 said:

1. Ask Brad who he talked, well actually listened to, at halftime.

2. You haven't answered why did he feel the need to onside kick up 21-0 in first quarter.

 

1. How about you just tell us....would be much easier

2. Not sure...but if I asked Trent he would probably say either " to give future opponents a look that they haven't seen and will have to spend time preparing for", or "to keep the ball out of Vercher's hands" (he ended up running one back) or "to give our team a spark because we were not playing well".  Would I have done it?  Nope.  Am I angry that he kicked an onside kick against a region opponent in the first quarter?  Nope. 

Why do you care.....genuinely curious.

[Navy21412]

15 hours ago, cbg said:

My apologies for not fully answering both of your questions:  IMO, Jim McIntyre and the Board of Trust have already changed the makeup of the student body. Unlike the typical diocesan high school Father Ryan is primarily made up of upper middle class families much like Bishop Lynch in Dallas, TX which is the school that Jim McIntyre attended for high school.  You don’t win state championships with kids from affluent families.  You must have a mix of working class kids and affluent kids mixed together to have an elite athletic department.  The facilities and academics are light years ahead of where they were 25 years ago but the overall athletic department (especially football) is worse than it has ever been in the history of the school.  When you have people that are allowed to have input with regards to the football program that have never played the game past grade school you have a major problem.  There are numerous Father Ryan alumni that have both played and coached football at the college & professional level but their opinions are currently not wanted by Jim McIntyre or the Board of Trust.

Again, outsider perspective so I'll leave it to the insiders to determine if any of this is true...I write only as one who thinks the world is better when there is a robust healthy MBA-FRHS rivalry that is one of the oldest in Tennessee...

--A former FR assistant now coaching in 6A told me that (to your point) the student body mix really changed when the campus moved from Elliston Pl to Franklin Road.  Obviously that move is a huge positive and major upgrade, but less a draw for some of the city kids who were the backbone of the program in the 80s-90s.

--In the late 90s, Brad Gioia at MBA made 7th grade the de facto entry point for all applicants.  Before, 7th and 9th grade were more or less equal entry points to the school.  That meant for the parochial school kids, the decision for where they want to go to high school moved up, as they are all k-8.  Around the same time, you started to see more and more parochial school kids (including a lot of great athletes) matriculating at MBA.  Back in the day, those kids (and there weren't many) who chose MBA from St. Henry came in 9th grade.  If there were kids from Christ the King, St Anne's, St Bernards, etc., I don't remember them; now, the halls are full of kids from those schools.  So MBA is getting a sales pitch in front of these kids in 6th grade, with the expectation that you have to take a spot now in 7th grade if you want one.  So FRHS isn't getting to make a competing pitch to these kids.  I think if FRHS had a 7th-8th grade where it could get these kids on campus at that point, it wouldn't lose as many as it is to MBA.  Plus, you get 2 extra years of player development where you have them in your system and strength program.  There were a bunch of parochial school kids on the field for MBA playing against FRHS Friday night, and I think it's been that way for many years.  

Regardless, Nashville is booming and Catholic families are part of that growth.  Don't Vrabel's kids go to FRHS?

Edited September 20, 2021 by Navy21412

[cbg]

1 hour ago, Navy21412 said:

Again, outsider perspective so I'll leave it to the insiders to determine if any of this is true...I write only as one who thinks the world is better when there is a robust healthy MBA-FRHS rivalry that is one of the oldest in Tennessee...

--A former FR assistant now coaching in 6A told me that (to your point) the student body mix really changed when the campus moved from Elliston Pl to Franklin Road.  Obviously that move is a huge positive and major upgrade, but less a draw for some of the city kids who were the backbone of the program in the 80s-90s.

--In the late 90s, Brad Gioia at MBA made 7th grade the de facto entry point for all applicants.  Before, 7th and 9th grade were more or less equal entry points to the school.  That meant for the parochial school kids, the decision for where they want to go to high school moved up, as they are all k-8.  Around the same time, you started to see more and more parochial school kids (including a lot of great athletes) matriculating at MBA.  Back in the day, those kids (and there weren't many) who chose MBA from St. Henry came in 9th grade.  If there were kids from Christ the King, St Anne's, St Bernards, etc., I don't remember them; now, the halls are full of kids from those schools.  So MBA is getting a sales pitch in front of these kids in 6th grade, with the expectation that you have to take a spot now in 7th grade if you want one.  So FRHS isn't getting to make a competing pitch to these kids.  I think if FRHS had a 7th-8th grade where it could get these kids on campus at that point, it wouldn't lose as many as it is to MBA.  Plus, you get 2 extra years of player development where you have them in your system and strength program.  There were a bunch of parochial school kids on the field for MBA playing against FRHS Friday night, and I think it's been that way for many years.  

Regardless, Nashville is booming and Catholic families are part of that growth.  Don't Vrabel's kids go to FRHS?

I too agree that Father Ryan "MUST" add 7th & 8th grade if they are ever going to close the gap and become competitive in D2AAA.  Just this year Pope John Paul II added 6th, 7th, & 8th grades to the school.  Not only would adding a middle school help with athletics but it would also help with academics.  A very high percentage of the kids going to Father Ryan from a public school are significantly  behind academically when they enter FR in the 9th grade.  

[MichaelMyers76]

2 hours ago, TTate said:

1. How about you just tell us....would be much easier

2. Not sure...but if I asked Trent he would probably say either " to give future opponents a look that they haven't seen and will have to spend time preparing for", or "to keep the ball out of Vercher's hands" (he ended up running one back) or "to give our team a spark because we were not playing well".  Would I have done it?  Nope.  Am I angry that he kicked an onside kick against a region opponent in the first quarter?  Nope. 

Why do you care.....genuinely curious.

I look at high school athletics as a vehicle for teaching life lessons: working hard to achieve goals, making the most of what you have, working with others to achieve a common goal etc.

I do not see it as a vehicle for one person to stroke his massive ego. 

We both know the only reason you didn't move up was because Ingle out coached him and denied his ego trip. Now he goes out and brings in still more out of state kids until he can be victorious. Maybe.

Heck this year it would have been easier to win AAA.

 

[ChuckDSanAntonio]

30 minutes ago, MichaelMyers76 said:

I look at high school athletics as a vehicle for teaching life lessons: working hard to achieve goals, making the most of what you have, working with others to achieve a common goal etc.

I do not see it as a vehicle for one person to stroke his massive ego. 

We both know the only reason you didn't move up was because Ingle out coached him and denied his ego trip. Now he goes out and brings in still more out of state kids until he can be victorious. Maybe.

Heck this year it would have been easier to win AAA.

 

Wrong again.  Ingle wouldn't commit to playing every year if they were in separate divisions.  In order for the rivalry to remain that have to play each other and the communities want that.  There is no reason to believe anything MikeMyers has to say anymore.  Clearly uninformed and hearsay.

Edited September 20, 2021 by ChuckDSanAntonio

[Navy21412]

1 hour ago, cbg said:

I too agree that Father Ryan "MUST" add 7th & 8th grade if they are ever going to close the gap and become competitive in D2AAA.  Just this year Pope John Paul II added 6th, 7th, & 8th grades to the school.  Not only would adding a middle school help with athletics but it would also help with academics.  A very high percentage of the kids going to Father Ryan from a public school are significantly  behind academically when they enter FR in the 9th grade.  

I think in general, parents are looking for more than what a typical K-8 school can provide versus what a high school with a junior high can offer.  FR could do the same with it's facilities and resources if that's the choice it made.  I'd be curious to know, what's the state of athletics at the parochial schools these days?  I know it has been a struggle at the non-parochial K-8 schools to field a football team at all.  A couple of years ago, we played against an 8th-grade all Catholic team, which wore purple jersies and played home games on campus at FR.  That team was really good.  Does that take the place of those schools playing against one another?

[cbg]

16 minutes ago, Navy21412 said:

I think in general, parents are looking for more than what a typical K-8 school can provide versus what a high school with a junior high can offer.  FR could do the same with it's facilities and resources if that's the choice it made.  I'd be curious to know, what's the state of athletics at the parochial schools these days?  I know it has been a struggle at the non-parochial K-8 schools to field a football team at all.  A couple of years ago, we played against an 8th-grade all Catholic team, which wore purple jersies and played home games on campus at FR.  That team was really good.  Does that take the place of those schools playing against one another?

Again speaking from past experience but the Parochial (K-8) schools have dropped 7th & 8th grade football and combined to form a team that competes under the banner of Nashville Catholic.  Wrestling began the trend of having one team made up of the Parochial schools and baseball followed that trend in the early 2000's.  To the best of my knowledge the only sports that the Parochial schools offer for 7th & 8th grade are Cross-Country and Basketball.  

I am well aware of the expenses (building additional facilities) that it would take to add a 7th & 8th grade to Father Ryan.  I have also heard every excuse known to man as to why Father Ryan should not add 7th & 8th grade students.  With that being said if the Diocease of Nashville plans on remaining in the business of education they must change the business model that they have used for well over 50 years.  Like it or not private education is a business and if you don't provide the families/customers with what they want they will go somewhere else for their educational needs.  

IMO, what Nashville really needs and it would fill a complete void in Catholic education is an ALL BOYS Catholic school!

Edited September 20, 2021 by cbg

[JRB]

33 minutes ago, Navy21412 said:

I think in general, parents are looking for more than what a typical K-8 school can provide versus what a high school with a junior high can offer.  FR could do the same with it's facilities and resources if that's the choice it made.  I'd be curious to know, what's the state of athletics at the parochial schools these days?  I know it has been a struggle at the non-parochial K-8 schools to field a football team at all.  A couple of years ago, we played against an 8th-grade all Catholic team, which wore purple jersies and played home games on campus at FR.  That team was really good.  Does that take the place of those schools playing against one another?

Nashville Catholic for many years has had a baseball program and as you have mentioned, recently begun a football program.  Originally I heard the football program served as a feeder program for FRHS however I think most Diocese kids now play for NC as their school struggles with the numbers to field a team (other than maybe STH, CTK or STM).  

So that leaves basketball, which is much easier as you only need 5 to play and 10 to practice.  With that said, most Catholic middle schools barely have 10 boys per grade that can walk and chew gum so a) not going to be very good and b) not getting better by competing in practice.  

My boys 7th & 8th grade years at STJ, we boat raced the Catholic league in basketball and football but would get boat raced by the publics, other privates or the Overbrook Holiday tournament.

[MichaelMyers76]

1 hour ago, ChuckDSanAntonio said:

Wrong again.  Ingle wouldn't commit to playing every year if they were in separate divisions.  In order for the rivalry to remain that have to play each other and the communities want that.  There is no reason to believe anything MikeMyers has to say anymore.  Clearly uninformed and hearsay.

What was "wrong"? I didn't say anything about Ingle committing to anything. I said Ingle out coached him in the championship last year which he clearly did and that is not debatable. Anything else is pure insinuation on your part.

I know I know. The facts are wrong because they came from me, blah blah.

[JRB]

1 hour ago, cbg said:

IMO, what Nashville really needs and it would fill a complete void in Catholic education is an ALL BOYS Catholic school!

When did FRHS go co-ed?  I know it's longer than 7 years, which is how long we have been in Nashville.

CBG, I think our responses were sent simultaneously as there was much overlap with Nashville Catholic and middle schools. 

[cbg]

20 minutes ago, JRB said:

When did FRHS go co-ed?  I know it's longer than 7 years, which is how long we have been in Nashville.

CBG, I think our responses were sent simultaneously as there was much overlap with Nashville Catholic and middle schools. 

In 1970 Cathedral (All Girls School) closed and Father Ryan admitted females.

One idea that someone presented to me about one month ago has the Diocese of Nashville purchasing Aquinas, St. Cecelia and Overbrook.  They would then lease the Aquinas buildings back to the Dominicans so that they were able to continue offering a BS in education for the Dominican nuns.  The St. Cecelia and Overbrook schools would become a 7-12 Diocesan All Girls Catholic school.  Father Ryan would then become a 7-12 All Boys Catholic school and operate at the current Norwood Dr. location.  While this idea could really fill a void, especially with the new school opening in Nolensville I am not sure that it has the support of the necessary decision makers.  If made this decision would eliminate the need to build any additional buildings on the now land locked Father Ryan campus but the land purchase from the Dominicans would not be inexpensive.  This plan would also fill a necessary void and Nashville would then have an All Boys Catholic School along with an All Girls Catholic school that was operated by the Diocese of Nashville.  These two single sex schools would be sandwiched between Pope John Paul II and the new school that is to be built in Nolensville.  One thing that I have found to be true in the Diocese of Nashville is that they always seem to be reactive when it comes to education.  It would be nice if they would find some forward thinking individuals that  know how to get things done.  

[runtheball]

15 hours ago, cbg said:

In 1970 Cathedral (All Girls School) closed and Father Ryan admitted females.

One idea that someone presented to me about one month ago has the Diocese of Nashville purchasing Aquinas, St. Cecelia and Overbrook.  They would then lease the Aquinas buildings back to the Dominicans so that they were able to continue offering a BS in education for the Dominican nuns.  The St. Cecelia and Overbrook schools would become a 7-12 Diocesan All Girls Catholic school.  Father Ryan would then become a 7-12 All Boys Catholic school and operate at the current Norwood Dr. location.  While this idea could really fill a void, especially with the new school opening in Nolensville I am not sure that it has the support of the necessary decision makers.  If made this decision would eliminate the need to build any additional buildings on the now land locked Father Ryan campus but the land purchase from the Dominicans would not be inexpensive.  This plan would also fill a necessary void and Nashville would then have an All Boys Catholic School along with an All Girls Catholic school that was operated by the Diocese of Nashville.  These two single sex schools would be sandwiched between Pope John Paul II and the new school that is to be built in Nolensville.  One thing that I have found to be true in the Diocese of Nashville is that they always seem to be reactive when it comes to education.  It would be nice if they would find some forward thinking individuals that  know how to get things done.  

I am guessing you have been around as long as I have so give me your opinion of all the talented athletes in the 60's that played at a high level in college and even the pros without spring football, all the year conditioning , sport specialization, weight training , summer camps, 7 on 7, and these so called trainers , FR has plenty of players on there current football team as do many schools. What is missing with those not winning is players with better talent. I remember a Pearl team with players in low 20's , not Pearl Cohn, that beat an MBA Tommy Owen team with 90 players and beat them at MBA on homecoming. It always has been about players and always will be.