Top 20 Programs In The State (all divisions)

[cobrakid8]

16 hours ago, TotallynotLEO said:

With very few exceptions 

 I was speaking about sports in general but was hoping that would come up. Participation in California has dropped from over 27k kids wrestling in 2013 to just over 19k. A 30% decline in the last 10 years.  

TN has about 4100 wrestlers for comparison. 

Tn population  7m

Ca population  39m

Ca is 5.57 times our size but only has just has 4.7 times our wrestlers.  

Per capita, we have a higher participation rate than Ca. 

Do we have any idea how many wrestlers we had back in say 2013 or 1999? Because I did go and look at teams that participated for those years and this year and let me say there are less teams now and have been since the split than there was before.

2023-  A-57 teams,  AA-60 teams,   D2-26    Total 143

2013- year before split-  D1-142,  D2-18   Total 160

1999- D1-94, D2-16   Total 110

The thing is though, We know the split didnt help create more teams which is weird considering with population growth itself there would be more schools and thus more teams. But I also have to always question if there is an actual growth of wrestlers(there should be anyways because of population growth) but is there actually a rise in wrestlers actually wrestling that can be pointed to more programs?  I mean I can tell you that Soddy student population isnt all that much less than it was back in 2012 when they won the state title before split, they are now considered a small school program but competed against and won quite a bit against the big boys and ALSO had a full wrestling room of around 45-50 wrestlers while now they prob sit around 25-30, same I would say with Overton of that day when they are still large school and yet are no where near where they were with regards to numbers of wrestlers. So I would say growth in wrestling has NOTHING to do with having more teams and splits but the coaches and coaching are what matters to growth of wrestling and so having quality coaches instead of a football coach wanting an extra supplement matter much more. 

 

 

 

[noonesfool]

19 minutes ago, cobrakid8 said:

Do we have any idea how many wrestlers we had back in say 2013 or 1999? Because I did go and look at teams that participated for those years and this year and let me say there are less teams now and have been since the split than there was before.

2023-  A-57 teams,  AA-60 teams,   D2-26    Total 143

2013- year before split-  D1-142,  D2-18   Total 160

1999- D1-94, D2-16   Total 110

The thing is though, We know the split didnt help create more teams which is weird considering with population growth itself there would be more schools and thus more teams. But I also have to always question if there is an actual growth of wrestlers(there should be anyways because of population growth) but is there actually a rise in wrestlers actually wrestling that can be pointed to more programs?  I mean I can tell you that Soddy student population isnt all that much less than it was back in 2012 when they won the state title before split, they are now considered a small school program but competed against and won quite a bit against the big boys and ALSO had a full wrestling room of around 45-50 wrestlers while now they prob sit around 25-30, same I would say with Overton of that day when they are still large school and yet are no where near where they were with regards to numbers of wrestlers. So I would say growth in wrestling has NOTHING to do with having more teams and splits but the coaches and coaching are what matters to growth of wrestling and so having quality coaches instead of a football coach wanting an extra supplement matter much more. 

 

 

 

Check your numbers. 189 teams for 2023. Go to the TSSAA website. They  are listed by district. Active schools in blue, they are the only ones I counted. Programs that have been active recently but not this year we’re listed in black. Examples: Happy Valley HS and Memphis East in A.

81A

76 AA

32 D2

Edited April 13, 2023 by noonesfool

[cobrakid8]

22 minutes ago, noonesfool said:

Check your numbers. 189 teams for 2023. Go to the TSSAA website. The are listed by district. Active schools in blue, they are the only ones I counted. Programs that have been active recently but not this year we’re listed in black. Examples: Happy Valley HS and Memphis East in A.

this is for teams that actually participated and actually sent wrestlers to the state tourney. Sorry there were not 46 teams that have any real participation and not send someone to the state tourney, especially any of the 3 that we now have for them to go too.  Also just a reference there are 550,000 more population now than there was in 2013 and 1.57 million more than in 1999. Again get me the numbers that would prove the increased participation because of the more classification because I would almost be willing to bet it has not.

 

Also I went into tssaa and under wrestling I show 182 total programs for this past season.  A-75,  AA-75 and 32 in D2. Now that is for all schools being split and asking to be put into classification. That does not mean ALL of those schools have any wrestlers, they just want to be included in classification. I cannot see those numbers for 2013 but I do show the numbers i gave above as schools that actually did have wrestlers because that was how many sent wrestlers to the state tourney itself.

 

You were probably looking at the upcoming possible classifications for 2023-2025. That has 157 teams asking for classification with A-79 and AA-78.  D2-29  total of 186 that have asked to be part of classification. Again this does not mean all 186 will have wrestlers, maybe that's what you are not understanding, just that a possible 186 could have at least 1 wrestler on their team. I would love to be able to see how many were classified in 2013 before the split into 3. Along with the actual number of participants compared to prior years to show growth that is anything more than actual population growth

Edited April 13, 2023 by cobrakid8

[TotallynotLEO]

3 hours ago, Ummmno said:

Nah, you said the more kids participating the more divisions they'll have. Population aside, California has more kids participating in the sport and only has one division. 

 "but California! "

 1 division in a state has less participation and has shrunk by 30%. 

TN with multiple divisions had more participation and is growing.  

I'm don't disagree that you can have too many divisions. I just happen to think that what we have now is appropriate.  Our sport is growing.  

Edited April 13, 2023 by TotallynotLEO
I didn't want to come off as too snarky, not my intention.

[noonesfool]

1 hour ago, cobrakid8 said:

this is for teams that actually participated and actually sent wrestlers to the state tourney. Sorry there were not 46 teams that have any real participation and not send someone to the state tourney, especially any of the 3 that we now have for them to go too.  Also just a reference there are 550,000 more population now than there was in 2013 and 1.57 million more than in 1999. Again get me the numbers that would prove the increased participation because of the more classification because I would almost be willing to bet it has not.

 

Also I went into tssaa and under wrestling I show 182 total programs for this past season.  A-75,  AA-75 and 32 in D2. Now that is for all schools being split and asking to be put into classification. That does not mean ALL of those schools have any wrestlers, they just want to be included in classification. I cannot see those numbers for 2013 but I do show the numbers i gave above as schools that actually did have wrestlers because that was how many sent wrestlers to the state tourney itself.

 

You were probably looking at the upcoming possible classifications for 2023-2025. That has 157 teams asking for classification with A-79 and AA-78.  D2-29  total of 186 that have asked to be part of classification. Again this does not mean all 186 will have wrestlers, maybe that's what you are not understanding, just that a possible 186 could have at least 1 wrestler on their team. I would love to be able to see how many were classified in 2013 before the split into 3. Along with the actual number of participants compared to prior years to show growth that is anything more than actual population growth

I may have cobra. It’s fun looking.

[Irish9]

Fairview High School - 2023 (4/5), 2022 (4/8), 2021 (1/4), 2020, (2/2), 2019 (E8/7), 2018 (3/7)

Not sure we are top 20 but wanted to give the kids some recognition for the hard work and consistency over the last 11 years, at what is not a traditional wrestling school. But we are trying to change that.

[cobrakid8]

2 hours ago, TotallynotLEO said:

 "but California! "

 1 division in a state has less participation and has shrunk by 30%. 

TN with multiple divisions had more participation and is growing.  

I'm don't disagree that you can have too many divisions. I just happen to think that what we have now is appropriate.  Our sport is growing.  

but that's the thing, not sure we can say its actually growing, is there a place to find what the actually participation was in other years, because I have yet been able to find that or find anyone that has that number. Again it SHOULD grow just for the fact we are millions of people more than we were in 1999 and over half a million since the split in 2013, but really how much is the growth because of different divisions compared to just pop growth? Until someone can show me that, I just don't see that the sport has grown, especially because of having more divisions.  

 

Also since 2013 California has only experienced a growth of 1 million people, very low % compared to their population if we want to use that. Also the biggest growth in California is of Latino descent, they do not wrestle at a high rate for participation, Cali has also declined in football by a lot while boys soccer has the highest rate of growth in the state and one of the only sports that actually increased participation. So it doesnt really look like a real decline in the sport there because of divisions but the populace itself. 

Edited April 13, 2023 by cobrakid8

[Ummmno]

2 hours ago, TotallynotLEO said:

 "but California! "

 1 division in a state has less participation and has shrunk by 30%. 

TN with multiple divisions had more participation and is growing.  

I'm don't disagree that you can have too many divisions. I just happen to think that what we have now is appropriate.  Our sport is growing.  

The only thing that is really growing is the number of medals we're handing out to kids then complaining about "participation trophies". 

 

Also, the numbers you gave on California aren't recent. Albeit, they're more recent than the numbers I could find but they're still a few years old. Side note, there are other states that have one division. Cali is just the go to bc thats what they're known for in wrestling. New Jersey also only has one division and both states are leagues more competitive than Tennessee

[sx1234]

2 hours ago, cobrakid8 said:

this is for teams that actually participated and actually sent wrestlers to the state tourney.

You need to factor in the sectional round that did not exist until last year.  For an accurate comparison, you would need to look at the schools that qualified for wrestlers for each sectional- as that was the round of 32.  If this was 2014, those would have been state qualifiers.

 

[cobrakid8]

4 minutes ago, sx1234 said:

You need to factor in the sectional round that did not exist until last year.  For an accurate comparison, you would need to look at the schools that qualified for wrestlers for each sectional- as that was the round of 32.  If this was 2014, those would have been state qualifiers.

 

I can go back to that, but in reality we still have 32 wrestlers in non D2 sports, just split across 2 instead of being in 1. and truthfully easier for a team with 1 or 2 wrestlers to still send a kid to state now compared to before the split. I mean if i wanted to take the time to look it up I am sure i could go in and see how many of those that actually applied for classification have any wrestlers, I did a quick search of like 3-4 schools I had never heard of before and they didnt have any wrestlers with any results. but again i havent had anyone be able to show me the participation has actually grown 

Edited April 13, 2023 by cobrakid8

[sx1234]

13 minutes ago, cobrakid8 said:

but that's the thing, not sure we can say its actually growing, is there a place to find what the actually participation was in other years, because I have yet been able to find that or find anyone that has that number. Again it SHOULD grow just for the fact we are millions of people more than we were in 1999 and over half a million since the split in 2013, but really how much is the growth because of different divisions compared to just pop growth? Until someone can show me that, I just don't see that the sport has grown, especially because of having more divisions.  

I'm actually agreeing with your argument.... but (and I hate this saying) "times are different".  Kids are very different than they were 10 years ago.

 

Just from what I have seen at the schools I have worked in- Kids don't go out for sports like they used to.  Kids would rather go home and do something else.  Even the kids that do play sports - whether its from their parents or their coaches- they all specialize in just one sport- two at best.  Schools that used to have 100 kids on the football team now only have 50-60 kids.  Again, I agree with your point about "does it really grow the sport?"- Just saying you can't really compared numbers when participation in all sports are down overall.

[TotallynotLEO]

21 minutes ago, sx1234 said:

I'm actually agreeing with your argument.... but (and I hate this saying) "times are different".  Kids are very different than they were 10 years ago.

 

Just from what I have seen at the schools I have worked in- Kids don't go out for sports like they used to.  Kids would rather go home and do something else.  Even the kids that do play sports - whether its from their parents or their coaches- they all specialize in just one sport- two at best.  Schools that used to have 100 kids on the football team now only have 50-60 kids.  Again, I agree with your point about "does it really grow the sport?"- Just saying you can't really compared numbers when participation in all sports are down overall.

That's actually a really good point.  Kids specialize in 1 sport now more than ever.  Used to be that a lot of football players would wrestle to get better at football. I don't think we see that as often.  It's there,  just not as much.  I wonder if the numbers were seeing now are more reflective of how many wrestlers we have that are dedicated to the sport rather than it being just something to do in the off season.