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Top 20 Programs In The State (all divisions)


cowcatcherII
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6 minutes ago, sx1234 said:

I'm actually agreeing with your argument.... but (and I hate this saying) "times are different".  Kids are very different than they were 10 years ago.

 

Just from what I have seen at the schools I have worked in- Kids don't go out for sports like they used to.  Kids would rather go home and do something else.  Even the kids that do play sports - whether its from their parents or their coaches- they all specialize in just one sport- two at best.  Schools that used to have 100 kids on the football team now only have 50-60 kids.  Again, I agree with your point about "does it really grow the sport?"- Just saying you can't really compared numbers when participation in all sports are down overall.

that is true, my son I had him try a few different sports but he has decided to focus on soccer. Also most states have faced a decrease in sports, especially during height of pandemic, Cali is just now starting to get back an increase but that is only from pandemic years and not pre. I just dont agree that its helped grow the sport overall. This also can and does explain some of California and their dropping rate of wrestlers. The rate was steady at 22,602 in 2019 since every sport in the state but soccer had experience loss, but it dropped to 19k with Covid. 

 

Nationally in 2019 since before Covid, there were 247,441 wrestlers in the country with 10,843 teams, so average of 22.8 wrestlers per team. Compare that with soccer with 459,077 players with 12,552 teams which equals 36.5 players per team(wow). Of course girls wrestling has outpaced growth of boys wrestling by a bunch, lack of qualified and good coaches still limits both.  Also from NHSFA numbers, there are now 231,874 wrestlers in the country with 10,797 teams. So number has dropped off from 2019 as has the number of teams, but only 21.4 wrestlers per team. 

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6 minutes ago, wssm said:

If there was 1 division would that help grow the sport? I don't think so. Let me know why I'm wrong. If it just to be like other states, that seems silly.

lets just go with 20, that way everyone can get a medal and pray it helps grow a sport that right now is traditionally not growing except for the girls wrestling. For that since 1994 it has grown from 804 to 31,654. Wrestling is a tough sport, prob if not the toughest it would be top 2-3. The sport for boys isnt growing, it is for girls, that is pretty much nationwide. Maybe for the boys its because of increase of concussion awareness just like with football. Just takes a different breed to wrestle and i dont think giving out more medals will increase participation. I just want someone that has the numbers can show me the growth that has taken place with these splits?

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1 hour ago, wssm said:

If there was 1 division would that help grow the sport? I don't think so. Let me know why I'm wrong. If it just to be like other states, that seems silly.

There isn't any way to prove that. Just as there isn't any way to prove having 8 divisions would grow the sport. 

 

I want one division because I think if they added another division (probably going to be a small school d2) I don't think its accurate or right to say someone who wins the 152 bracket is on par with Logan Fowler, for instance. It diminishes the value of the titles for the kids who ARE the best in the state. 

 

One state, one tournament, one title. 

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34 minutes ago, Ummmno said:

There isn't any way to prove that. Just as there isn't any way to prove having 8 divisions would grow the sport. 

 

I want one division because I think if they added another division (probably going to be a small school d2) I don't think its accurate or right to say someone who wins the 152 bracket is on par with Logan Fowler, for instance. It diminishes the value of the titles for the kids who ARE the best in the state. 

 

One state, one tournament, one title. 

In who's eyes are they diminished? Yours? Hate to break it to you but it isn't done so you can feel satisfied. Do you really think Fowler feels diminished because there is another state champ in another division. You're a clown.

one state, ten tournaments, medals for everyone!

 

Edited by wssm
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11 minutes ago, wssm said:

In who's eyes are they diminished? Yours? Hate to break it to you but it isn't done so you can feel satisfied. Do you really think Fowler feels diminished because there is another state champ in another division. You're a clown.

one state, ten tournaments, medals for everyone!

 

Medals for everyone. What a great sentiment. Clearly i'm not the only person who thinks this way as there have been more than one person on this board who have said they'd prefer one division. 

 

Notice how i never called you any names. I gave my opinion and it triggered you to the point of name calling. Go take a breath calm down. 

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3 hours ago, wssm said:

In who's eyes are they diminished? Yours? Hate to break it to you but it isn't done so you can feel satisfied. Do you really think Fowler feels diminished because there is another state champ in another division. You're a clown.

one state, ten tournaments, medals for everyone!

 

So because someone disagrees with you they are a clown?  

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9 hours ago, sx1234 said:

I'm actually agreeing with your argument.... but (and I hate this saying) "times are different".  Kids are very different than they were 10 years ago.

 

Just from what I have seen at the schools I have worked in- Kids don't go out for sports like they used to.  Kids would rather go home and do something else.  Even the kids that do play sports - whether its from their parents or their coaches- they all specialize in just one sport- two at best.  Schools that used to have 100 kids on the football team now only have 50-60 kids.  Again, I agree with your point about "does it really grow the sport?"- Just saying you can't really compared numbers when participation in all sports are down overall.

That's actually a really good point.  Kids specialize in 1 sport now more than ever.  Used to be that a lot of football players would wrestle to get better at football. I don't think we see that as often.  It's there,  just not as much.  I wonder if the numbers were seeing now are more reflective of how many wrestlers we have that are dedicated to the sport rather than it being just something to do in the off season.  

 

As far as combining again,  that ship has sailed. There is no way we're going backwards at this point.  If TSSAA suddenly decided to do that,  there would be an uproar.  It would make people on this board happy, people who think their kids could medal maybe.  They could say "1 state champ!" All they want but the sport would suffer from a participation standpoint. Just a guess but I think you'd see some schools even drop it altogether.  Many of these programs are barely surviving.  Take away any chance of them seeing some type of success and they'll fold. 

Heck,  I think Virginia has like 6 public school classifications and then private school.  NC has more than TN too. I'd bet most states do.  It's just not a big of a deal.  

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How about everybody just goes and wrestles and the sideline coaches stay out of it let the kids have fun and have whatever glory the classifications allow all of my kids have qualified for state every year and have even been finalist but the thing they hated the most was when adults tried to micromanage the tournaments they would always say we don't care about medals just let us wrestle

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12 hours ago, TotallynotLEO said:

That's actually a really good point.  Kids specialize in 1 sport now more than ever.  Used to be that a lot of football players would wrestle to get better at football. I don't think we see that as often.  It's there,  just not as much.  I wonder if the numbers were seeing now are more reflective of how many wrestlers we have that are dedicated to the sport rather than it being just something to do in the off season.  

 

As far as combining again,  that ship has sailed. There is no way we're going backwards at this point.  If TSSAA suddenly decided to do that,  there would be an uproar.  It would make people on this board happy, people who think their kids could medal maybe.  They could say "1 state champ!" All they want but the sport would suffer from a participation standpoint. Just a guess but I think you'd see some schools even drop it altogether.  Many of these programs are barely surviving.  Take away any chance of them seeing some type of success and they'll fold. 

Heck,  I think Virginia has like 6 public school classifications and then private school.  NC has more than TN too. I'd bet most states do.  It's just not a big of a deal.  

It's not going back because it makes more money for TSSAA, but I still dont see that its helped grow the sport at all, maybe since kids are soft now maybe more would quit wrestling if they dont win anything, but wrestling use to be a tough sport where you tried your hardest no matter if you won something or not. I used to think this state was tough with tough wrestlers, but since you dont like the illustration of Cali being used lets use some states we are close to in population.

Arizona-about same population has 4 divisions for wrestling, they have less schools overall but a bigger student population

Massachusetts- has 3 state division tournaments and 1 all state tournament after that

Indiana- has sectionals, regionals and semi states before 1 state tourney and they have many more schools that wrestle and more wrestlers although they have less population.

Missouri-less population, they have 4 classes with class and districts before states. They also had 204 schools that had participating wrestlers this year, so much more than TN does. They went to 4 actual classes in 2005, before that from 1983 to 2004 they would put class 1and2 together for 3 total champions. 

 

I just dont think there is a way to prove that adding more divisions brings out wrestling participation. Of course I don't think anyone can really prove or disprove it but I guess if wrestling participation starts to fall off again maybe we can add 2 more divisions to see if we can bring them back. 

ALSO NC HAS A STATE POPULATION ABOUT 3-4 MILLION MORE THAN TN, SO DONT THINK I WOULD USE THEM AS AN EXAMPLE. VIRGINIA IS ABOUT 2 MILLION MORE.

Edited by cobrakid8
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11 hours ago, Wrestlingfan22 said:

How about everybody just goes and wrestles and the sideline coaches stay out of it let the kids have fun and have whatever glory the classifications allow all of my kids have qualified for state every year and have even been finalist but the thing they hated the most was when adults tried to micromanage the tournaments they would always say we don't care about medals just let us wrestle

And that is great that they dont care about medals, thats the whole point of wrestling, to prove you are the best, sadly with the divisions its watered down now, I mean I didnt mind back in 96 wrestling against Baylor or McCallie studs that had a ton more resources compared to me, I beat some and lost to some, but in the end I wrestled who was put in front of me and there was no split.  Now I look at it as you have NCAA's and everyone else, just like you have D2, NAIA or whatever and juco nationals. Sorry, but those guys at those lower one's are national champions by name but that is about it. Of course my opinion only and I love those lower levels of wrestling and congrats for continuing to wrestle after high school, but they usually arent anywhere close to same level of wrestlers as those in NCAA D1, same as I feel about football and I love watching FCS teams play, but I also do not pretend they are the same level of players. Now in TN yeah there are plenty of A and D2 wrestlers that can and would win a state title if there was only 1 division, but lets not pretend some of those 3-6 place winners would also place if all were put back together. It is what it is and it's now done, but in the end it has watered down the wrestling when it comes to who ends up with a placing medal. I also promise I would have felt the same way if i had won my blood round back in 99 and ended up 5th or 6th. I would have been proud of how hard i competed, but i also would have loved the opportunity to wrestle some of the D2 guys I didnt have the chance to face during the season, some who placed in D2 i did beat, some I lost to.

 

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On 4/14/2023 at 11:33 AM, cobrakid8 said:

It's not going back because it makes more money for TSSAA, but I still dont see that its helped grow the sport at all, maybe since kids are soft now maybe more would quit wrestling if they dont win anything, but wrestling use to be a tough sport where you tried your hardest no matter if you won something or not. I used to think this state was tough with tough wrestlers, but since you dont like the illustration of Cali being used lets use some states we are close to in population.

Arizona-about same population has 4 divisions for wrestling, they have less schools overall but a bigger student population

Massachusetts- has 3 state division tournaments and 1 all state tournament after that

Indiana- has sectionals, regionals and semi states before 1 state tourney and they have many more schools that wrestle and more wrestlers although they have less population.

Missouri-less population, they have 4 classes with class and districts before states. They also had 204 schools that had participating wrestlers this year, so much more than TN does. They went to 4 actual classes in 2005, before that from 1983 to 2004 they would put class 1and2 together for 3 total champions. 

 

I just dont think there is a way to prove that adding more divisions brings out wrestling participation. Of course I don't think anyone can really prove or disprove it but I guess if wrestling participation starts to fall off again maybe we can add 2 more divisions to see if we can bring them back. 

ALSO NC HAS A STATE POPULATION ABOUT 3-4 MILLION MORE THAN TN, SO DONT THINK I WOULD USE THEM AS AN EXAMPLE. VIRGINIA IS ABOUT 2 MILLION MORE.

Why so snarky? You're clearly upset.  If it bothers you that much leave the sport. 

Kids are not softer, the sport is still tough. 

It seems like it's one again,  it's the adults that are upset about things more than the kids are.  

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