Temple's response to TSSAA

[reaction]

I have to say I have never heard rumors about Grace or David Brainerd recruiting. I guess they are either not doing it or better at hiding it than Temple and Silverdale /laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":lol:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

 

Sorry...I couldn't resist /blush.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blush:" border="0" alt="blush.gif" /> /laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":lol:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

 

If those schools recruit, they are not very good at it. /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" />

[SamHain]

Not ZP but yes, Stephen's son does go to SP. But no, he doesn't play. He is a ball boy/water boy. I think he is only in 7th or 8th grade. Hargis himself went to SP. That isn't the deal with his articles though. Like someone posted earlier, last year when he was posting nothing but positive things about Temple everything was ok. Now when there is a story that involves a local high school that he writes on he is "out to get them." Of course Temple isn't the only school he has been accused of being "Out to get." That will be said by any team's fans that see bad news about their school in the paper or on the news.

 

But trust me, he is not "Out to get" anyone. His job is to report the stories, good or bad about everyone. And yes, if there was something bad but of importance about South Pittsburg sports, he would report that as well.

 

You just said what I was going to say, DS. Stephen has always done an excellent job reporting sporting news throughout the area. Some news is good, some bad, but it gets reported. Some people on here need some cheese to go with their "whine".

[Baldcoach]

Zonepirate, you seem to be a very objective fan, and I know dadoffour is the parent of a Temple football player. I don't have an affiliation with Temple. However, I think Steven Hargis and Ronnie Carter are in bed together on this issue. My friends who are Temple fans say that the school freely admits mistakes were made, but the severity of the penalty is a joke. In the legal arena, intent is always the primary factor in detemining punishment. Temple had a new administration and things slipped through the cracks. Scott Chastain was a bitter pill and wanted to get even with Temple. Take a melgamaniac like Ronnie Carter and a half wit reporter like Steven Hargis and you have what we now see: a school that did the right thing and admitted its mistakes and had the book thrown at them. This penalty was like killing a fly with a nuclear warhead.

 

 

 

Wow, harsh.

 

I like Hargis...he, unlike many interns who are converted to sports writers, has been writing about Chattanooga sports for years. Nice guy.

 

I like Ronnie Carter. Seems like a decent guy in a really tough position. I don't envy him at all.

 

This is NOT a severe penalty. My first inclination was that it was not severe enough. But after reading what the charges are it fits with previous precedent...which is actually the legal primary factor, not intent. You can't prove intent, especially not in a case like this. You can prove obvious violations...violations that anyone, even a new coach or administration should know better than to commit.

 

I thought the TSSAA showed restraint in not pursuing several lines of inquiry further not because of a lack of evidence but because they came down to 'He said/She said' kinds of issues. I appreciate that they only penalized the incidents that everyone could prove had occurred.

 

And a nuke would be much more severe...good rhetoric though, nice imagery.

 

You say you have no dog in this hunt...it seems you do by your posts, or at least a bone to pick with Carter and the TSSAA. I'd be interested in what that might be...

[oldschool54]

I don't know how long you've been around here oldschool, but Steven Hargis has reported for the TFP for many years now with excellent coverage of area high school sports. He was right there covering Temple when they were on top and I guess that was O.K., but now that things go sour for them, I guess he's not supposed to report that, huh? Half-witted?????....

 

 

SamHain: As previously noted, I am not affiliated with Temple. I have friends whose kids attend their and I love watching high school sports. However, as an attorney, I try to always look at facts. Last season, Steven Hargis took "off the record" comments and tried to use them to create divisions within Temple. Steven seems to always be finding a way to dig up dirt on Temple, but amazingly cannot seem to find any other school in this area doing anything wrong. All I am saying is there is something more to this issue than meets the eye.

[oldschool54]

Not ZP but yes, Stephen's son does go to SP. But no, he doesn't play. He is a ball boy/water boy. I think he is only in 7th or 8th grade. Hargis himself went to SP. That isn't the deal with his articles though. Like someone posted earlier, last year when he was posting nothing but positive things about Temple everything was ok. Now when there is a story that involves a local high school that he writes on he is "out to get them." Of course Temple isn't the only school he has been accused of being "Out to get." That will be said by any team's fans that see bad news about their school in the paper or on the news.

 

But trust me, he is not "Out to get" anyone. His job is to report the stories, good or bad about everyone. And yes, if there was something bad but of importance about South Pittsburg sports, he would report that as well.

 

Hate to disagree, but Steven Hargis' style of reporting seems more suited for the "National Enquirer" than a newspaper. I love high school football and have driven up to several SP games because you guys have the small town football atmosphere I grew up playing in. But even though I have only lived up here for a few years, I have seen some pretty compelling evidence that a few SP players actually live in Alabama. Public schools recruit, they just do it in a different fashion. Temple should be punished, but the punishment should fit the offense.

[oldschool54]

Wow, harsh.

 

I like Hargis...he, unlike many interns who are converted to sports writers, has been writing about Chattanooga sports for years. Nice guy.

 

I like Ronnie Carter. Seems like a decent guy in a really tough position. I don't envy him at all.

 

This is NOT a severe penalty. My first inclination was that it was not severe enough. But after reading what the charges are it fits with previous precedent...which is actually the legal primary factor, not intent. You can't prove intent, especially not in a case like this. You can prove obvious violations...violations that anyone, even a new coach or administration should know better than to commit.

 

I thought the TSSAA showed restraint in not pursuing several lines of inquiry further not because of a lack of evidence but because they came down to 'He said/She said' kinds of issues. I appreciate that they only penalized the incidents that everyone could prove had occurred.

 

And a nuke would be much more severe...good rhetoric though, nice imagery.

 

You say you have no dog in this hunt...it seems you do by your posts, or at least a bone to pick with Carter and the TSSAA. I'd be interested in what that might be...

 

 

I really don't have a dog in this hunt, but I have a real passion for people in positions of authority not overstepping or misusing that authority, especially to hurt others. John Wesley told his followers, "Do no harm." His second rule was "Do good." It seems to me that this idea that one should always seek to follow a higher road should be especially true of a person in Ronnie Carter's position. He has a direct tie to Friendship Christian and should have recused himself from not only the Temple case, but any other case involving a Class A school. This would have been the ethical thing to do. I was harsh, because I believe in letting the kids play. I don't believe in cheating, but courts decide on intent on issues everyday. Temple broke rules and should be punished, but their intent was not to defraud anyone. Also, ignorance of the law is the ONLY excuse. My lunch hour is up, so I won't post anymore today.

[NOT PRETENTIOUS]

Nope.

 

 

 

Then what are you trying to say, and who are the 6' and 6'3" football players that you are talking about?

[zonepirate]

Wow, harsh.

 

I like Hargis...he, unlike many interns who are converted to sports writers, has been writing about Chattanooga sports for years. Nice guy.

 

I like Ronnie Carter. Seems like a decent guy in a really tough position. I don't envy him at all.

 

This is NOT a severe penalty. My first inclination was that it was not severe enough. But after reading what the charges are it fits with previous precedent...which is actually the legal primary factor, not intent. You can't prove intent, especially not in a case like this. You can prove obvious violations...violations that anyone, even a new coach or administration should know better than to commit.

 

I thought the TSSAA showed restraint in not pursuing several lines of inquiry further not because of a lack of evidence but because they came down to 'He said/She said' kinds of issues. I appreciate that they only penalized the incidents that everyone could prove had occurred.

 

And a nuke would be much more severe...good rhetoric though, nice imagery.

 

You say you have no dog in this hunt...it seems you do by your posts, or at least a bone to pick with Carter and the TSSAA. I'd be interested in what that might be...

 

 

Good post. Even the private school supporters don't think the penality was excessive. The only ones complaining about the severity of the penalties are a very few Temple supporters. Even most of the Temple folks are fine, even happy, with the the way it turned out. I have even seen other private school supporters complain that based on precedent (McCallie a few years back) that Temple got off light. Even Temple's AD and head Coach Markham was happy that Temple didn't get hit harder. So why are you so up in arms oldschool?

 

oldschool54, I'm not sure what your agenda is but all of us "oldschool" CoachTer's can see there is more to your posts than just some bystander....we just don't buy it. So you are an attorney....maybe you are the $$$$$ man at Temple wanting to change the conversation away from Temple....you know there are rocks that were left unturned /dry.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" . Makes you go hmmmmm /laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":lol:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

 

You have mentioned several times Ronnie Carter's ties to Friendship...tell us what they are. I have never heard that. I think public schools would have been up in arms if this was true. You also mention intent....Temple has their version of what they intended but it is only based on what the Temple Admin says they were doing, not on hard evidence. So how do you know just hwat thier real intent was. You can't know jsut like the TSSAA can't know. Just like the mystery phone call to the TSSAA....no way to prove or disprove...very convenient. The jails are full of so called "innocent" people.

 

With all this said I am glad the present bunch of Temple football players will get to play. They have worked hard under much adversity. A 2 year post season ban for football is no real punishment at all but at least the kids get this monkey off of their back. Other than $4,000+ in fines temple got no real punishment at all. Be happy...it could have been much, much worse.

[taydizzle]

I really don't have a dog in this hunt, but I have a real passion for people in positions of authority not overstepping or misusing that authority, especially to hurt others. John Wesley told his followers, "Do no harm." His second rule was "Do good." It seems to me that this idea that one should always seek to follow a higher road should be especially true of a person in Ronnie Carter's position. He has a direct tie to Friendship Christian and should have recused himself from not only the Temple case, but any other case involving a Class A school. This would have been the ethical thing to do. I was harsh, because I believe in letting the kids play. I don't believe in cheating, but courts decide on intent on issues everyday. Temple broke rules and should be punished, but their intent was not to defraud anyone. Also, ignorance of the law is the ONLY excuse. My lunch hour is up, so I won't post anymore today.

 

 

If ignorance is your excuse, then are you saying that DAN WADLEY in 2006 as Temple's athletic director did NOT KNOW THE RULES and thought it was okay for ERIK LARSON to PRACTICE with TEMPLE'S FOOTBALL TEAM when he was NOT A STUDENT and NOT ENROLLED ACCORDING TO TSSAA RULES?

[blueandgoldfan]

Wow, harsh.

 

I like Hargis...he, unlike many interns who are converted to sports writers, has been writing about Chattanooga sports for years. Nice guy.

 

I like Ronnie Carter. Seems like a decent guy in a really tough position. I don't envy him at all.

 

This is NOT a severe penalty. My first inclination was that it was not severe enough. But after reading what the charges are it fits with previous precedent...which is actually the legal primary factor, not intent. You can't prove intent, especially not in a case like this. You can prove obvious violations...violations that anyone, even a new coach or administration should know better than to commit.

 

I thought the TSSAA showed restraint in not pursuing several lines of inquiry further not because of a lack of evidence but because they came down to 'He said/She said' kinds of issues. I appreciate that they only penalized the incidents that everyone could prove had occurred.

 

And a nuke would be much more severe...good rhetoric though, nice imagery.

 

You say you have no dog in this hunt...it seems you do by your posts, or at least a bone to pick with Carter and the TSSAA. I'd be interested in what that might be...

 

 

 

i also like hargis as a sports reporter. he seems to do a good job covering high school sports. i have had some objections to some quotes he's used in the past to report on BBS games, but i think he does a fine job overall. you have to consider that so much personal emotional baggage is attatched to high school sports. any high school team fan may not appreciate the coverage they recieve for a situation such as this. however, it is news worthy. if this happened to any other school (especially a private one), you could expect the same reporting.

 

i have just skimmed the various articles in the TFP. are there any specific quotes that would suggest Hargis is unfair in his reporting of this situation?

[oldschool54]

Good post. Even the private school supporters don't think the penality was excessive. The only ones complaining about the severity of the penalties are a very few Temple supporters. Even most of the Temple folks are fine, even happy, with the the way it turned out. I have even seen other private school supporters complain that based on precedent (McCallie a few years back) that Temple got off light. Even Temple's AD and head Coach Markham was happy that Temple didn't get hit harder. So why are you so up in arms oldschool?

 

oldschool54, I'm not sure what your agenda is but all of us "oldschool" CoachTer's can see there is more to your posts than just some bystander....we just don't buy it. So you are an attorney....maybe you are the $$$$$ man at Temple wanting to change the conversation away from Temple....you know there are rocks that were left unturned /dry.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" . Makes you go hmmmmm /laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":lol:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

 

You have mentioned several times Ronnie Carter's ties to Friendship...tell us what they are. I have never heard that. I think public schools would have been up in arms if this was true. You also mention intent....Temple has their version of what they intended but it is only based on what the Temple Admin says they were doing, not on hard evidence. So how do you know just hwat thier real intent was. You can't know jsut like the TSSAA can't know. Just like the mystery phone call to the TSSAA....no way to prove or disprove...very convenient. The jails are full of so called "innocent" people.

 

With all this said I am glad the present bunch of Temple football players will get to play. They have worked hard under much adversity. A 2 year post season ban for football is no real punishment at all but at least the kids get this monkey off of their back. Other than $4,000+ in fines temple got no real punishment at all. Be happy...it could have been much, much worse.

 

 

I just came in and saw your post. I receive your critique in the spirit I believe it was intended. I will not show you my financial records, but I can assure you I have never given any money to Temple. My comments regarding Carter's ties to Friendship were based upon what I consider to be reliable information, but if I find out differnt, I will be the first one on this board to set the record straight. I am also glad this current group of Temple players will get to play. I guess my real issue is with the dictatorial powers TSSAA seems to enjoy. A few years ago, the GHSA tried the same type of tactics and the Georgia Legislature stepped in and fixed the problem. I have sort of adopted Temple as my "pet" cause because I have an issue with persons in authority overstepping their boundaries. That's my agenda. I am of the opinion (something we all have) that TSSAA wanted to make an example of Temple and its supporters who fought for what they believe, for whatever reason. I reiterate that I don't have a connection to Temple, and have unofficial adopted SP as "my" team because I like the way they blend an "old school" rushing attack and strong defense with a more modern passing game. Thanks again for the feedback.

[oldschool54]

Good post. Even the private school supporters don't think the penality was excessive. The only ones complaining about the severity of the penalties are a very few Temple supporters. Even most of the Temple folks are fine, even happy, with the the way it turned out. I have even seen other private school supporters complain that based on precedent (McCallie a few years back) that Temple got off light. Even Temple's AD and head Coach Markham was happy that Temple didn't get hit harder. So why are you so up in arms oldschool?

 

oldschool54, I'm not sure what your agenda is but all of us "oldschool" CoachTer's can see there is more to your posts than just some bystander....we just don't buy it. So you are an attorney....maybe you are the $$$$$ man at Temple wanting to change the conversation away from Temple....you know there are rocks that were left unturned /dry.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" . Makes you go hmmmmm /laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":lol:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

 

You have mentioned several times Ronnie Carter's ties to Friendship...tell us what they are. I have never heard that. I think public schools would have been up in arms if this was true. You also mention intent....Temple has their version of what they intended but it is only based on what the Temple Admin says they were doing, not on hard evidence. So how do you know just hwat thier real intent was. You can't know jsut like the TSSAA can't know. Just like the mystery phone call to the TSSAA....no way to prove or disprove...very convenient. The jails are full of so called "innocent" people.

 

With all this said I am glad the present bunch of Temple football players will get to play. They have worked hard under much adversity. A 2 year post season ban for football is no real punishment at all but at least the kids get this monkey off of their back. Other than $4,000+ in fines temple got no real punishment at all. Be happy...it could have been much, much worse.

 

 

Zonepirate: One other thing: I did some free legal work in Georgia several years ago for a small public school that was being stomped upon by the GHSA with lead boots over some minor infraction issues. I guess this thing with Temple sort of brought our the avenging angel in me for the little guy. My oldschool identity comes from the fact that I played on Warner Robins (GA) 1976 GHSA 4A state and national championship team and we did it like SP (run the ball and play great defense). I enjoy chatting with people who understand the game and issues, not just partison fans should and do stand by their schools.