2A enrollment versus polls

[alcoafan72]

I thought Alcoa was opened zoned, and the students from larger school were just transferring to get more play time. I've heard that due to Alcoa's location the athletes from lager 3a etc. schools are going from larger class to lower class to gain play time, and scholarship opputuities. I've never heard of students having to pay to attend Alcoa anyway. I don't they think recriut or anything they just have the ability to attract great athletes to attend their school and play a sport, because their other sports programs a great too not just their football program. Is any of that true?

 

 

 

Hmmmmmmm if you're a great player or a good enough player wouldn't you get playing time where ever you go to school?

[BCsportsfan]

If Maryville and Alcoa pull all the in county and surrounding area talent, then way is William Blount also the Number #1 ranked 5A team in the state!?

 

Sucess breeds sucess! If you want to be a champion watch what a champion does. For Blount County teams they don't have to go far to see how the other does it!

 

If people think the sucess Maryville and Alcoa has had in the last three years comes from open zone, then we'll just keep the secret to ourselves...............feeder programs, middle school programs......opps, did I say that?

 

-BlountCountySportsFan

[ksgovols]

I disagree. it doesn't have to be a public/private debate. I believe there are examples you listed and others that prove smaller numbers can win. All I know details about is CPA. Granted the parents can choose to send their children there, but they have about 160 male students, of which about 45 are playing football (28%). So, you can see football is not the driving force that motivates parents to send their children there. The attraction is more academics, Bible based education, a safe nurturing environment, and fine arts. Over 1/2 of the starters have been in school together since elementary school, so they were not recruited or sent by their parents for football.

 

Here was my point: If a school has 200 more students (public or private) and 100 of them are male, and 30% of them play football, that school has a talent pool of 30 more male athletes to field a team, of which about 15 will be juniors and seniors. That should give them an advantage regardless of where they live or why they attend the school. High school boys aren't that much different from one another athletically, and if you have 30 more to choose from, you should field a better team.

I believe the reason the smaller schools, whether it be CPA (private) or Trousdale (public rural) win with small numbers is coaching, tradition, parent support, and the ability to get the male athletes to commit to the program.

 

 

I don't disagree that you can't attract kids with resources and coaching staffs and tradition, but the percentages that you throw out doesn't mean anything in a public/private debate. How many underprivileged or troubled kids are in that percentage? How many have grade issues or special needs? Private schools can eliminate those kids during the enrollment process or reduce the number significantly. That increases those percentages you're throwing out from the get go. How in the world can you equate that to 'doing more with less'? You're not pulling from the same pool. You're not taking everybody that's in a defined zone and doing the best that you can do with those numbers. I'll admit, at some level of enrollment you are right. There are enough kids that qualify and have the parental and academic support at public schools that you have plenty of athletes to choose from. I just disagree that it happens at 2A on a regular basis for football and I seriously doubt that it would at most 3A schools. I also don't think the argument is the same in basketball and baseball where one dominant player can affect the game so much.

 

Open zoned publics and Magnet schools aren't either. Even if I wanted my kid to go to one of the other 2 public county schools for any reason, unless I teach at one of those schools, I wouldn't get a waiver.

[alcoafan72]

What's really your point?

[Alcoa79]

I wasn't going to get in on this debate - but I have to say something. I am an Alcoa Alum - we also won the state in 77,78,79 -but- we were 1A - and we also had tuition students that paid to go to Alcoa. The cost of tuition at Alcoa is minimal compared to Maryville or private schools, but there is a cost. The criteria to be a tuition student has become more strict as more and more kids want to pay to come to Alcoa. They receive a letter each year and are told that if they do not adhere to this, they can be denied tuition. It happens every year. There are a maximum number of students per grade and when the numbers exceed the max, then they have to decide where to draw the line. Grades are the first priority. I also know that just because you work for the city, doesn't mean your child will automatically get in. There are city employees whose kids are still trying to get in and haven't yet. If you live in the city of Maryville or Alcoa you pay city and county taxes. This allows you to also go to a county school if you choose. It doesn't allow Alcoa citizens to go to maryville or visa versa without paying tuition. Maryville has also had to limit tuition students because of the numbers. They simply don't have the space to take every tuition student who has applied. Space is also an issue at Alcoa. It also depends on the grade they are trying to enter. If the sophomore class is at it's limit - they cannot accept any tuition students in that grade, but if the freshmen class is not - then they can accept that age student. There are kids that are denied acceptance every year and some that are not re- accepted because of behavior, grades, etc.

[ksgovols]

What's really your point?

 

 

My point is that if my school could get football players from the other 2 schools in the county and stay in 2A, my school would be a whole lot more competitive. Most rural public schools don't have that luxury.

 

You don't think it's an advantage? Take away every tuition paying football player that ever played for Alcoa and where would you be. Don't tell me it's academics. Lindsey, Warren and Sykes are all in prep school or JC trying to become eligible to play DI football.

 

Private schools in the public classification, open zoned schools that allow students to pick and choose their school and magnet schools have a distinct advantage over these public schools in counties that don't have an open zone or in many cases, their entire county's enrollment population limits them to 2A.

 

I don't necessarily see an equitable solution to the problem but it takes alot of nerve to say that private schools and open zoned schools with lower enrollments are doing more with less. Enrollment is not a true indicator of talent dispersement. Neither is gathering your enrollment from a larger population base while maintaining a smaller school enrollment than the population dictates. It's mathematics. If Lewis County has 573 9th through 12th grade students in the entire county versus Alcoa allowing 653 students in from a county of 100,000 people or if CPA can 'attract' 300 students that are like minded and have a similar work ethic and undoubtedly have more resources, it looks to me like Lewis County is doing more with less.

[JaxMan]

I think it is perfectly okay for any school to open there enrollment ot out of zone kids and charge tuition...but just like the privates anyone who does should have a multipler

[ksgovols]

I think it is perfectly okay for any school to open there enrollment ot out of zone kids and charge tuition...but just like the privates anyone who does should have a multipler

 

 

Yep

[scots08]

Yep

 

 

People are saying its because of tuition students that these two schools win games. well for alcoa the last few years warren, lindsey, sykes, fiegler, white, love, cobb, lanxter,hodge all live in the city limits. Im pretty sure for maryville maples, tallant and most of their kids also lived in the maryville city limits. yes they do have some tuition students but so does everyone else. Dont blame those two schools if theirs are better. nobody ever complained about the tuition students a couple years ago when alcoa was 3-7.

[ksgovols]

No. Everybody else does not have tuition paying students. That is the point.

 

The norm in Blount County is not the norm everywhere else. Most public schools do not allow open zones or students that pay tuition. The private schools have multipliers on every school and not all of them are going to state every year. Dang! I'd hate to see what would happen if Cheatham County allowed open zones. The basketball rivalries are crazy enough as it is. If you could shop schools, it would be 100 times worse.

 

While it might not be an advantage every year, there is the potential for an advantage to be there. Put a red line on a map and draw all of your students from there for awhile like practically every other public school does and see what happens. Your program will experience some peaks and valleys. Sure, if you have a good coach, the peaks and valleys won't be so far apart, but most public schools don't have a choice as to where they draw their talent from. Then they have to subtract a few that opt for private schools. Then they throw them all in the same division and expect them to compete at the same level.

[AlcoasPaintedBridge]

No. Everybody else does not have tuition paying students. That is the point.

 

If you do your research I am sure you will find that most city schools within a county seat have this option. (Anderson Co. comes to mind) You have now turned this into a public/private debate anyway. I am tired of hearing all this whining anyway, Beat Maryville or Alcoa or shut up. It can be done. Just work a little harder, study a little more, have the kids work out on their own with out coaching supervision. THIS is where the difference is. NOT with tuition. You cannot BUY a starting spot on any of these teams any more, William Blount got tired of losing to them all the time and decided to do something about it, now look where they are. Get over yourselves and realize that these other teams are getting OUT WORKED, not out tuitioned. /mad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":angry:" border="0" alt="mad.gif" /> I'm glad the playoffs are almost here, I havent been tagging in a while.

[fan91]

huntingdon usually has around 400 students