TSSAA proposals on classification

[bigchief]

I guess one could look at it like that, but "Private" schools and "Parochial' are really not in it for the money. infact anyone in education would know its not for the money.

 

Its about fairness, how is fair for a 1.8 multiplier for all private schools, that don't give scholarships, It is not up to the TSSAA to decide who is in or not, aslong as schools fallow the rules.

 

go teachem public schools, teach your youth, if you can't win, just go legislate a championship, water down and try to force the "competion" out. Don't try teaching them work ethic, decipline, or dedication

 

"teachem"? "decipline"? "competion"? sic. I hope I am teaching them to spell better than that, at least. Are you?

[KCHSCoach]

now back to issues, is it fair? yes or no

[Bighurt]

Shouldn't the convenience of playing nearby or relatively nearby opponents in region play be a reason such teams would want to play in Division II? As for having no voice in what classification they're in, some rural teams for whatever reason, maybe nearer opponents, might prefer to play in an urban classification. They'd have no choice from the way I read things. Others may not agree with the district they're in, lack of money opponents, etc.

 

A total split was wanted at the beginning whether private schools offered aid or not but it seems a compromise was reached to satisfy the large public schools (Riverdale, etc). Goodpasture was originally in Division II which helped the feelings at the time but after they had a hard time winning in football they entered Division I. They were 5-6 in Division II the year before winning a state title in Division I if I'm not mistaken. Notre Dame struggled, entered Division I and went to a 3A semifinal despite playing with a multiplier and despite losing scholarship/aid athletes.

 

As I've said on here plenty of times, I still think the TSSAA dangled the threat of games with MBA and Brentwood Academy over the small privates, influencing most to choose the Division I route-even when having to take aid athletes off varsity rosters. That's wrong, too.

 

You're right, it's silly to have to go such distances, that's a reason why the complete split should take place, or an urban-rural division should start. As for the large Division II teams, the more who join and show they can compete at that level, the better the travel should be.

 

1. "Shouldn't the convenience of playing nearby or relatively nearby opponents in region play be a reason such teams would want to play in Division II?" That might be a good reason but a school should not be forced to go D2. IMHO

 

2. "As for having no voice in what classification they're in, some rural teams for whatever reason, maybe nearer opponents, might prefer to play in an urban classification." I was referring to have a choice to be in DI or D2 which I think should be up to the individual school.

 

3. I don't know what compromises were made to satisfy the large public schools when D2 was created. Riverdale's principal was the leading proponent of this legislation. I guess you mean there were provisions for schools like Goodpasture and Knox Catholic to return to D1.

 

4. I don't understand why you think that the TSSAA would threaten school to keep them in Division I.

[Bighurt]

Does the The TSSAA legally have to allow everyone to be members , and participate in sports under their guidance. If not the TSSAA could just not allow the privates to be members anymore.That might stop a few lawsuits /dry.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" .

 

 

What I don't understand is why you would sue someone over highschool sports. No wait I do understand , Private schools are a business and when your business is on top (winning sports teams) then you get more business(student athletes) when you get more business you make more $$$$$$ , and when someone does something to damage your business (multiplier) you sue them for the $$$$$$ you stand to lose.

 

Go Getem private schools you teach our youth that if you can't always win sue someone.

 

Regarding your question about allowing everyone to be members, the bylaws in the TSSAA handbook in Article I, Section I state "Any secondary school in Tennessee which includes grade 9 and/or higher, which is approved by the State Department of Education, State Department of Education approved agencies (Schools must be in category 1, 2, or 3.) and/or the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools, both non-public and public, desiring membership in TSSAA may make application to the Board of Control. Prior member schools that continue to serve students within the state of Tennessee may also make application to the Board of Control. Contracts for membership shall be approved or rejected annually by the Board of Control at its June meeting." So, school must be approved for membership by the TSSAA Board of Control.

 

Regarding your statement - "private schools you teach our youth that if you can't always win sue someone."

 

Is it OK for a majority faction of a voluntary organization to banish a minority faction of members in good standing to a separate division just because one school (Riverdale) lost a state championship game (1995 5A to Brentwood Academy)?

 

Is it OK for a majority faction of a voluntary organization to place a 1.8 multiplier on enrollment for a minority faction just because the principal of a small rural public school does not like losing to a private school (Collinwood loses to Ezell-Harding in 2001)?

 

Please tell me why if the BA lawsuit is a bad example for our youth and the creation of D2 and the multiplier are not equally bad examples.

[chill]

Transportation and geography seem to be a pretty big issue in this discussion. Why does every team have to play district opponents twice a year in bball, etc. Since distance is an issue in certain districts, then why not come up with a different formula for district seeding and just come together for end-of-season tournaments. I'm not saying do away with all district games, but only playing once a year, alternating home and away, would allow more room for teams to play geographical rivals regardless of classification. Some districts have 8, 9 teams in their makeup and after tournaments have no space to play anyone else on their schedule. This would be better gates and you could play the kids you grow up playing.....this is not a solution to what many of your are talking about, but personally traveling an hour to play AA district opponents when I could play 10 AAA's within 20 minutes just makes more sense financially and in regards to competitive spirit.....I hate not having the same rivals in AA basketball as my AAAA football team...

[Indian]

The basketball district here includes 9 teams, 5 from Chattanooga and four rural schools to their west. The rural schools wanted a one-game per season setup as you mentioned, but the Chattanooga schools voted against it. They liked the money the rural teams brought with them, crowds and concessions, while some of them rarely brought more than 15-20 fans if that many to the rural schools' gyms. East Ridge brought three people one game not counting players and coaches.

 

As for the other question on why the TSSAA would threaten the small privates, the director never wanted a split and has been quoted as saying so. Lots of coaches at the time of the partial split expressed concern over playing the likes of Brentwood Academy, when they wouldn't have been doing so. This was never fully explained to such coaches by the TSSAA, apparently.

[Indian]

This is a highly slanted and completely inaccurate picture. Silverdale, Grace, and DB would be CRUSHED by the area 2a and 3a schools in Football and just about everything else except Basketball and Soccer, and some of them would crush them there. And, frankly, they are not better than the 1a schools in their region. Don't slant your report about Chattanooga like you did about Knoxville by implying it would somehow be fair for Knox Grace to face Fulton. Most rediculous things I have ever seen you post.

 

It isn't fair to chose the sports that the small schools are the very best at and the sports that the worst public programs are the very worst at and say "See, they are about equal because they could compete here"...sure they could, but they are gonna get killed everywhere else.

The truth is you can't possibly justify pitting small privates with 200 kids and new programs against big publics. Anyone who says differently is simply dishonest. Grace vs. Fulton indeed...

 

 

The reason for discussing that was talking about how it might go if it takes place as projected, more than giving any thoughts on fairness, and explaining some might do better overall than it might seem. The way I thought it would go, there would be quite a few more schools in the small-middle, metro group, maybe raise the limit up another couple of hundred (probably a Red Bank level, about 1200) so there could be two classes and the Hixsons would be in a different group from the Sale Creeks.

 

I missed the part where I said Knoxville Grace would be competitive against Fulton. But most other teams wouldn't be either. Give Knoxville Grace a few years, as they've just started, and see what happens against most opponents.

 

David Brainerd isn't really a viable topic to discuss yet since they're just starting their teams but they're already getting there in baseball.

 

As for Silverdale and Grace, they'd have been competitive with some of the larger schools in football, most in boys' basketball. Grace would have in girls' basketball. Compare Grace sport by sport to East Ridge, this year it would have been fairly equal or Grace ahead, East Ridge wouldn't have been significantly favored in any of them. That's aboiut 900 to about 200. The thing to remember is for some of these schools, they're just in the first few years of their programs. And just because Howard might light up any of them in boys' basketball doesn't mean overall they can't and won't do well.

[Baldcoach]

The reason for discussing that was talking about how it might go if it takes place as projected, more than giving any thoughts on fairness, and explaining some might do better overall than it might seem. The way I thought it would go, there would be quite a few more schools in the small-middle, metro group, maybe raise the limit up another couple of hundred (probably a Red Bank level, about 1200) so there could be two classes and the Hixsons would be in a different group from the Sale Creeks.

 

I missed the part where I said Knoxville Grace would be competitive against Fulton. But most other teams wouldn't be either. Give Knoxville Grace a few years, as they've just started, and see what happens against most opponents.

 

David Brainerd isn't really a viable topic to discuss yet since they're just starting their teams but they're already getting there in baseball.

 

As for Silverdale and Grace, they'd have been competitive with some of the larger schools in football, most in boys' basketball. Grace would have in girls' basketball. Compare Grace sport by sport to East Ridge, this year it would have been fairly equal or Grace ahead, East Ridge wouldn't have been significantly favored in any of them. That's aboiut 900 to about 200. The thing to remember is for some of these schools, they're just in the first few years of their programs. And just because Howard might light up any of them in boys' basketball doesn't mean overall they can't and won't do well.

 

 

Indian,

 

East Ridge beats Grace in every sport except Soccer and possibly basketball. Brainerd kills them in every sport except Baseball. Howard too. So does Tyner. How, again, are they going to do 'well'? Remember, they are one of the better small privates.

 

You continue to choose the poorer publics and compare them to the better small privates. And still the table is stacked with this system. It may be the way the TSSAA goes, but at least have the spine to admit there is not justification based on 'fairness'.

[Baldcoach]

Just FYI for those who don't know (but should if they are going to post as if they do) the DI privates ARE a business. They are non-profits the same as your local charities. So they aren't teaching their kids to sue (3 putt) and they don't feel like they have to win to make money...because they don't make money. If they did they wouldn't be non-profits anymore.

 

Instead they lose money...which means that they have to raise extra money every year to stay open. And that pretty much shoots most of the silly "you have sooo much money we can't compete" rants down.

 

But, I've said all this before and no one seems to notice...or believe it. Just felt duty bound to post it again so some poster wouldn't continue to make uninformed statements...

[Indian]

Indian,

 

East Ridge beats Grace in every sport except Soccer and possibly basketball. Brainerd kills them in every sport except Baseball. Howard too. So does Tyner. How, again, are they going to do 'well'? Remember, they are one of the better small privates.

 

You continue to choose the poorer publics and compare them to the better small privates. And still the table is stacked with this system. It may be the way the TSSAA goes, but at least have the spine to admit there is not justification based on 'fairness'.

 

 

 

Have you ever heard of girls sports and up until this season for Grace, baseball?

[Antwan]

Just FYI for those who don't know (but should if they are going to post as if they do) the DI privates ARE a business. They are non-profits the same as your local charities. So they aren't teaching their kids to sue (3 putt) and they don't feel like they have to win to make money...because they don't make money. If they did they wouldn't be non-profits anymore.

 

Instead they lose money...which means that they have to raise extra money every year to stay open. And that pretty much shoots most of the silly "you have sooo much money we can't compete" rants down.

 

But, I've said all this before and no one seems to notice...or believe it. Just felt duty bound to post it again so some poster wouldn't continue to make uninformed statements...

 

 

Aren't publics non-profit entities too? Small publics have to raise money to get by too. They don't get enough government support to function. So...by your definition...small publics lose money too.

[LargeK9]

Haas anyone heard how the post season would work in the proposed AA and AAA classifications? I ask because it doesn't seem to work real well with the numbers. The AA districts are closest with at least an even number of districts(12), which can be merged as usual into an even number of regions(6). After that, some form of wild card system will be needed for sports other than football as well to get to 8 for the state tounament. The propsed AAA districts are even worse. They have 9 districts which means they will need a wild card system after district tournaments to get to a tournament number(16, 32, 64). While I am not against that, how would a wild card system be fairly implemented with travel in mind? Would anyone care?