Illegal Slam? You make the Call.

[memphissoccerpimp22]

During a wrestling match a wrestler is in the wrestling moment of beating and dominating his opponent. This was legal and the kids are was trapped under him. This is no slam intent in this match just returning the wrestler back to the mat

[BoroRef]

During a wrestling match a wrestler is in the wrestling moment of beating and dominating his opponent. This was legal and the kids are was trapped under him. This is no slam intent in this match just returning the wrestler back to the mat

 

Intent to slam is not a consideration whatsoever in the rule book no more than the knee of the offensive wrestler touching first.

 

The one and only issue regarding this "Illegal slam" was that the defensive wrestler was exposed in the return to the mat and his shoulder/head hit first. ILLEGAL SLAM by the book. As put forth by several commentators he was in obvious control of the move and had options on the return to the mat.

 

And on top of officiating, I have wrestled as well as coached before as well....

Edited December 18, 2012 by BoroRef

[marshiebaby]

I already commented that I thought it was illegal - I do question the kids inability to continue and whether the coach did the right thing in not taking a few minutes and talking to his kid on whether he should continue or not... Further, I am a longtime former wrestler who was taught lift and return by people like Rich Lorenzo etc... who certainly taught it the way it was shown in the video and I am bringing up two very tough and very good high school wrestlers in this state . My kids have been in this situation in aau and I try to not question the authority of the referree too much, and have taught my boys that it is a judgement call and to bring kids to the mat with control and if its called while I might not like it, I can accept it. For the parent passing along the video sure its fine to question, just teach your kid to respect the referee and understand that this is an opinion call that can be made and be right either way. For those in the middle of the debate who bash others with a differing opinion you do not serve the sport or this message board well by the personal attack. It is a good subject and is an opinion call all day long and we can probably all disagree and not be wrong on this one... None of us should get ruffled or personal over someone asking for an opnion here

[Sommers]

Whether a slam or not, we need to try & bite our tongue in the best interest of the wrestler.

 

As a coach, parent or a fan... It's always good to remember this before yelling names & criticizing that if you haven't put on the stripes yourself, you have no right to openly do this.

 

I know 90% of our officials (and have worn the stripes mentored by some listed below + Abbott, Farr & Mara) and I try to go to them (later) individually with an inquiring mind, with respect and little if any emotion in order to better understand. We all come out ahead and more prepared for future judgement calls. And no one gets thrown out!

 

By the way, to me officiating is like a whole different sport than being a grappler,,,, ask Mr. Brewster, John "Mr. Pain" Lane, David "the look" Hodges, Mike "no frills" Craft & son, Jack "he's back" Faircloth, Donnie "the baldy" Elsea, Barry "i'll take the hit" Clark & son, David "the wall" Heffington, Kyle "6 mil $ man" Davis, Danny "genuine ears, but already knows" Gilbert,,, The legendary Mr. Dunning and many others who have lasted more than One Season. (sorry to those I failed to list, catch ya next time ).

 

Seriously, Mistakes can & will be made ...because we are all human, but what do you want... instant replay?

Edited December 18, 2012 by Sommers

[mat73557]

Thank you all for your input. This is great discussion material.

 

The last thing I want to do is discourage my kid from going hard and working to score. In hindsight, with an inexperienced opponent, he should have probably just cut the guy and worked on his take downs until a pinning opportunity presented.

 

Now, with that said, I can see why that return could be called illegal. I'd still like to find some case examples to help me learn more. As someone else mentioned, that same return is normally not called a slam. If the defensive guy had landed on his head disproportionally from his body, or if he landed on his back, I would say easy call. To me, this one seemed like an overreaction turned into a judgement call and it didn't go his way.

 

Wrestler A has been developing nicely and hopefully he will learn from this. When I first saw this video, I told him not to change anything he is doing. After reading this discussion, I think that was the right decision overall. He didn't intend on causing injury and he will not in the future.

 

I do question and condemn any coach who will take an undeserved win at this age. I am not saying that this was an example of that by any means. I'm just saying......

 

Thanks again for the input.

[LBJ6]

Thank you all for your input. This is great discussion material.

 

The last thing I want to do is discourage my kid from going hard and working to score. In hindsight, with an inexperienced opponent, he should have probably just cut the guy and worked on his take downs until a pinning opportunity presented.

 

Now, with that said, I can see why that return could be called illegal. I'd still like to find some case examples to help me learn more. As someone else mentioned, that same return is normally not called a slam. If the defensive guy had landed on his head disproportionally from his body, or if he landed on his back, I would say easy call. To me, this one seemed like an overreaction turned into a judgement call and it didn't go his way.

 

Wrestler A has been developing nicely and hopefully he will learn from this. When I first saw this video, I told him not to change anything he is doing. After reading this discussion, I think that was the right decision overall. He didn't intend on causing injury and he will not in the future.

 

I do question and condemn any coach who will take an undeserved win at this age. I am not saying that this was an example of that by any means. I'm just saying......

 

Thanks again for the input.

I agree that he has developed nicely. I think your boy is one of the most improved wrestlers I have seen from the beginning of last season to now. I can tell the older brother has worked with him.

[DAKEKO]

I think I can clearly be seen sitting far side of the mat observing this match. ( the bald official sitting) . From my vantage point clearly an illegal slam. The right call was made.

[stripes]

It is illegal, When you lift your opponent off the mat your are responsible for his safe return. A slam is lifting and returning your opponent to the mat with unnecessary force. The knees hitting the mat first is no longer in the rule book. In this situation y ou have awrestler with his arm traped and he can't protect himself. The referee has to make a split second call and whether the wrestler can continue or not has no bearing on the call.

[conspirator]

After watching it time and time again I would not have called it but this is with the ability to use replay which a ref does nt have. The open hand and feet slap the mat and that is what the sound is. The lifting wrestler comes to the side and lifts and is still at the side when his opponent is returned. If he brings his weight down on him that would give me a different opionion. As far as safely returning the wrestler and using the " lets see if hes hurt" first before i make a call approach" , thats not feasible as the ref must make a call right then. A lot of times (im not saying its the case here) the wrestler being slammed suddenly becomes a lot more injured when he realizes it was called an illegal move. Now there is verbage in the rule book about the trapped arm and Im not sure exactly what it says but I do think we are sissyfying wrestling just like every thing else in society. i would not have called this a slam unless the rule book states it must be called that way due to the trapped arm and if it does then that needs to be addressed all across the state with all wrestlers because you will see 20 slams this hard or harder not called at every tournament across the state.

[coachheath]

I was not going to comment on this post but I feel I need to. I am the coach of Murfreesboro Elite wrestling team and wrestler A wrestles for me. He is a very good wrestler and a better student. I teach this and drill it and will not stop doing so. I do not agree with the call because the ref let the crowd and the 4 people that came out of the bleachers dictate his call. You can tell the ref's that used to wrestle before and the ones that just do it for extra money. If any of my wrestlers gets slamed to the mat and can continue they will.

I think I can clearly be seen sitting far side of the mat observing this match. ( the bald official sitting) . From my vantage point clearly an illegal slam. The right call was made.

[mat73557]

I agree that he has developed nicely. I think your boy is one of the most improved wrestlers I have seen from the beginning of last season to now. I can tell the older brother has worked with him.

 

Thanks! He has totally worked his tail off since the end of last season. He has also benefited from some great coaching....older brother included!

[mat73557]

Just for curiosity sake, I posted this video in Iowa and asked the same question. Here is one of the responses..

 

is a slam.

 

 

LOL