Haywood and Dusty Rhodes

[CoachT]

TSSAA upholds sanctions on Haywood baseball after appeal, including two-year postseason ban

[Southtowner]

Good decision. 

[cbg]

On 6/1/2019 at 11:01 PM, tradertwo said:

I agree with most everyone's opinion on this, especially BPM's, and Southtowner's reasoning... having said that, I'll bet dinner that Dusty was right in principal, if waaayyy over the top in reaction. Dusty doesn't go out of his way to be likeable, but he knows baseball inside out and backward. If the blue made a reasonable attempt at an explanation of the calls, I can't believe that Coach would risk elimination (before the ejection) by his antics. Whether his ejection was warranted or quick triggered, the rest is just Dusty being Dusty.

Over the last several years I have found that very few umpires, even the ones that work the state tournament know the rules inside and out.  Often times umpires are assigned to the state tournament based on seniority or political reasons not on current umpiring skills and ability.  I have also personally known some umpires that for some reason become very tense at the state tournament and have to make everything about themselves and create controversy.    Believe me when I say that most of the high school umpires hate it when a coach knows the rule book inside and out.  I even had the head umpire of the state finals game tell me that he didn't understand why Coach XYZ was so hard on the umpires.  His official response was " I know Coach XYZ knows the rules better than most everyone but he does not have to be so hard on everyone when they make a mistake.  My response was if you don't F up he will leave you alone.

Was it ever determined why Dusty became so upset?

[TeeterTot]

2 hours ago, cbg said:

 

Was it ever determined why Dusty became so upset?

Because he has anger issues?

[tradertwo]

2 hours ago, cbg said:

Over the last several years I have found that very few umpires, even the ones that work the state tournament know the rules inside and out.  Often times umpires are assigned to the state tournament based on seniority or political reasons not on current umpiring skills and ability.  I have also personally known some umpires that for some reason become very tense at the state tournament and have to make everything about themselves and create controversy.    Believe me when I say that most of the high school umpires hate it when a coach knows the rule book inside and out.  I even had the head umpire of the state finals game tell me that he didn't understand why Coach XYZ was so hard on the umpires.  His official response was " I know Coach XYZ knows the rules better than most everyone but he does not have to be so hard on everyone when they make a mistake.  My response was if you don't F up he will leave you alone.

Was it ever determined why Dusty became so upset?

I can only give you 2'nd and 3'rd hand information, and the only person who was present that I've spoken to has a bias... having said that, ALL the stories match, that the ump prodded Dusty pretty hard with the "that's how it is because I say that's how it is" position, while refusing to explain what the kid was doing wrong. Second "mistake" blue made was to tell Coach to shut up and get in the dugout, that he didn't have to explain (that was supposedly the warning). Third time Dusty asked for the violation, he was ejected, and things went downhill quick because Coach thought he wasn't wrong in asking, and that he hadn't even had a warning. Assistant said that he waited for Coach to "get his money's worth" in the argument, then was going to intervene before it got too bad, but another official grabbed him and shoved him back toward the dugout. That's what prompted the anger from him and the players.

   Like I said, that's all just hearsay and one side of the argument... I'm sure that the unbiased truth lies somewhere between this and what Blue reported, but this is more believable than "a polite discussion about the rules" triggering a veteran coach to explode like never before in a long and successful career.

[BigEdMo]

7 hours ago, tradertwo said:

I can only give you 2'nd and 3'rd hand information, and the only person who was present that I've spoken to has a bias... having said that, ALL the stories match, that the ump prodded Dusty pretty hard with the "that's how it is because I say that's how it is" position, while refusing to explain what the kid was doing wrong. Second "mistake" blue made was to tell Coach to shut up and get in the dugout, that he didn't have to explain (that was supposedly the warning). Third time Dusty asked for the violation, he was ejected, and things went downhill quick because Coach thought he wasn't wrong in asking, and that he hadn't even had a warning. Assistant said that he waited for Coach to "get his money's worth" in the argument, then was going to intervene before it got too bad, but another official grabbed him and shoved him back toward the dugout. That's what prompted the anger from him and the players.

   Like I said, that's all just hearsay and one side of the argument... I'm sure that the unbiased truth lies somewhere between this and what Blue reported, but this is more believable than "a polite discussion about the rules" triggering a veteran coach to explode like never before in a long and successful career.

Bingo

[ReitzFan]

On 7/17/2019 at 1:42 PM, tradertwo said:

I can only give you 2'nd and 3'rd hand information, and the only person who was present that I've spoken to has a bias... having said that, ALL the stories match, that the ump prodded Dusty pretty hard with the "that's how it is because I say that's how it is" position, while refusing to explain what the kid was doing wrong. Second "mistake" blue made was to tell Coach to shut up and get in the dugout, that he didn't have to explain (that was supposedly the warning). Third time Dusty asked for the violation, he was ejected, and things went downhill quick because Coach thought he wasn't wrong in asking, and that he hadn't even had a warning. Assistant said that he waited for Coach to "get his money's worth" in the argument, then was going to intervene before it got too bad, but another official grabbed him and shoved him back toward the dugout. That's what prompted the anger from him and the players.

   Like I said, that's all just hearsay and one side of the argument... I'm sure that the unbiased truth lies somewhere between this and what Blue reported, but this is more believable than "a polite discussion about the rules" triggering a veteran coach to explode like never before in a long and successful career.

I would say that if it is coming out of the mouth of Trader Two, you can pretty much Bank on it being accurate. And for you umpires reading this out there, I am still in no way condoning the behavior of Dusty Rhodes during that incident

[tradertwo]

11 hours ago, ReitzFan said:

I would say that if it is coming out of the mouth of Trader Two, you can pretty much Bank on it being accurate. And for you umpires reading this out there, I am still in no way condoning the behavior of Dusty Rhodes during that incident

That's what get's my goat Reitz... people assume that because you question the ump's behavior, you somehow support or condone Dusty's actions. Dusty definitely lost his temper and demonstrated behavior that is unacceptable an any setting, much less at an event focused on and attended by kids. That however, does not automatically clear the ump of instigating and escalating the situation because he "had authority" over the coach, as some posters evidently assume. Wrong is wrong, and because one side of an argument is wrong, doesn't mean the other is right.

[BigEdMo]

9 hours ago, tradertwo said:

That's what get's my goat Reitz... people assume that because you question the ump's behavior, you somehow support or condone Dusty's actions. Dusty definitely lost his temper and demonstrated behavior that is unacceptable an any setting, much less at an event focused on and attended by kids. That however, does not automatically clear the ump of instigating and escalating the situation because he "had authority" over the coach, as some posters evidently assume. Wrong is wrong, and because one side of an argument is wrong, doesn't mean the other is right.

Bingo

[BBStuart]

On 6/6/2019 at 4:44 PM, ReitzFan said:

It is my understanding that this was the first time all seaon, including state tournament games, that Haywood and the pitcher were called on this hybrid stance issue. Does not seem like it is that big a point of emphasis. There has to be more to this than a coach just going wacko.

I don't know the coach, but a lot of umpires might be intimidated and won't call the rule because of the BS they'll get.  Nothing better an umpire likes hearing then "Nobody else calls that".  And coaches receive rule books and case play books as well.  It's not like they don't know about the hybrid stance being illegal.

[BBStuart]

On 6/6/2019 at 4:44 PM, ReitzFan said:

It is my understanding that this was the first time all seaon, including state tournament games, that Haywood and the pitcher were called on this hybrid stance issue. Does not seem like it is that big a point of emphasis. There has to be more to this than a coach just going wacko.

Where did you hear that that was the first time the hybrid was called on them?

[ReitzFan]

17 hours ago, BBStuart said:

I don't know the coach, but a lot of umpires might be intimidated and won't call the rule because of the BS they'll get.  Nothing better an umpire likes hearing then "Nobody else calls that".  And coaches receive rule books and case play books as well.  It's not like they don't know about the hybrid stance being illegal.

BigEd,

Looks like another man in blue was just smoked out. A newbie to the board and one who hides his information as well. Could it be possible for an umpire to misinterprete what is an illegal stance and what is not an illegal stance? That has not been brought up as a question to my knowledge. Something tells me that there is really more to this than what has been published. I also wonder if a bear may have been poked and prodded into behavior that is not proper. These are questions that we may never find answers to.