Officiating

[Tigersandcats]

51 minutes ago, tradertwo said:

How many 20 year olds are out there who feel entitled not to have to work at all? The world is a vastly different place than when I grew up... I had "chores" that were expected to be done at home, then a job after school and weekends as a sophomore. I drove myself at 14... chief of police just said six words: straight to work and straight home. I went where I wanted, but you'd better believe that I knew how he expected me to behave. Problems go deeper than low wages in today's society.

Great post. I agree 100%. I remember when I was In high school the parking lot looked like a salvage yard and now they look like a new car lot. It’s near impossible to find anyone young that’s eager to get into my line of work. You mention 10 hour days and they basically laugh in your face.

[YBsostupid]

13 hours ago, TheLiaison said:

Overall economic decline is killing everything associated with public education. Public education follows a corporate model where you have high administrative overhead (bosses make a lot) and workers make a livable wage. When inflation goes up, corporations raise prices and employee pay in lockstep with inflation. The problem with public education using the corporate model is they don’t have a product to sell so there isn’t a price hike that increases the pay for the employee. Teachers are leaving teaching and coaching in droves because of stagnant wages, whereas administrators are not because they make significant wages. Example: large county principals make close to $130k, assistant principals make $100k, and teachers make $37k. Textbook corporate model. T$$AA is no different. Referees and others that get things done make nothing, while a very few individuals make significant money at the top. I am a capitalist conservative, but it’s moronic for public ed and T$$AA to follow a corporate model. The more inflation goes up, the more teachers, coaches, referees, etc will be leaving the job forever. 

I do not see "teachers and coaches leaving in droves".  I've heard that line for 20-25 years now but it's simply not true.  School have become very top heavy.  Small schools that never considered having a "Vice Principal" now have one even though enrollment is the same.  Schools that use to have one vice principal now have 3 or 4.  Small schools who use to have 1 secretary now have 3 and so on.  It is even worse at the administration buildings.  Those places are so over hired someone should go to prison for it.  Everyone wants an assistant and then the assistant wants an assistant and it never ends until you have 50 people doing what 5 people could do if willing to put in a decent day's work 5 days a week.

[tradertwo]

17 minutes ago, YBsostupid said:

I do not see "teachers and coaches leaving in droves".  I've heard that line for 20-25 years now but it's simply not true.  School have become very top heavy.  Small schools that never considered having a "Vice Principal" now have one even though enrollment is the same.  Schools that use to have one vice principal now have 3 or 4.  Small schools who use to have 1 secretary now have 3 and so on.  It is even worse at the administration buildings.  Those places are so over hired someone should go to prison for it.  Everyone wants an assistant and then the assistant wants an assistant and it never ends until you have 50 people doing what 5 people could do if willing to put in a decent day's work 5 days a week.

I didn't get into the numbers earlier, but our small (ish) system starting salary with minimum degree and no tenure is mid 40k with mandatory raises for tenure and degree... Principals (HS) around 80k, and Director of Schools @120k. Coaches vary a little, but average over 10k for the "big 3", with performance-based bonus's up to 6k. Not bad for small town USA with summers and holidays off. We have so far mostly avoided over hiring of chiefs in relation to indians. That doesn't change the fact that our government is conditioning people to be liabilities rather than assets, who feel entitled to benefits not earned in any way. The problem being discussed is game officials, but all of society is suffering from the same affliction...don't believe me, think back over the last few years about supply chain issues and even obtaining professional services. Houston, we have a problem!

[ManOfMillions]

46 minutes ago, tradertwo said:

I didn't get into the numbers earlier, but our small (ish) system starting salary with minimum degree and no tenure is mid 40k with mandatory raises for tenure and degree... Principals (HS) around 80k, and Director of Schools @120k. Coaches vary a little, but average over 10k for the "big 3", with performance-based bonus's up to 6k. Not bad for small town USA with summers and holidays off. We have so far mostly avoided over hiring of chiefs in relation to indians. That doesn't change the fact that our government is conditioning people to be liabilities rather than assets, who feel entitled to benefits not earned in any way. The problem being discussed is game officials, but all of society is suffering from the same affliction...don't believe me, think back over the last few years about supply chain issues and even obtaining professional services. Houston, we have a problem!

God love you. Nail, hammer, bang, head!

[TheLiaison]

16 hours ago, tradertwo said:

 

You say there's no product to sell, yet the state mandates that all kids are educated. While I agree with your assessment (officials need a raise), I disagree with most everything else. If you're a capitalist, you know the "law" of supply and demand. We're at a low point regarding job performance and availability, necessitating a salary increase... TSSAA will make it happen willfully, or they'll be forced to in order to continue their own revenue stream. Not trying to enter into a debate about when, but you can rest assured that they will not jeopardize their own existence, and no officials equals no TSSAA.

  You really need to research your salary figures too...way off, but irrelevant in this discussion.

Reading comprehension is apparently a lost art. Not gonna say how I know that the salaries are accurate but let’s just say I “work closely” to public education. You completely missed the point that public ed uses a corporate model where administrators make tons of money and the little guy barely survives. When inflation goes up by 5% due to printing money, corporations raise their products by 5% and as a result workers wages are increased likewise. Government work (teaching, coaching, officiating, etc) are outside the economic market and are based upon tax revenue, not by selling products or services. Inflation goes up because of money printing and government wages stay the same. This is the case for teachers and officials. Why would someone become a teacher, coach, or official when they can flip burgers or work in retail for more money. Almost every corporation has given 5% raises this year because they’ve increased the price of their products. Officials don’t have a tangible product to sell and are at the mercy of working under a corporate model where all the money is hoarded at the top. 

[Southtowner]

I thought they did the best they could. 

[crazzyness]

On 12/4/2022 at 12:05 AM, footballover said:

A TSSAA football official makes $115 for a Varsity game on Thursday/Friday night. TSSAA added $10 if you travel over 30 miles to the school you're working $20 over 60 miles

They have to be there at least 1 hr and a half before kickoff. Games are typically 3 hours. They have to drive to and from the game. Sometimes they are offered food after the game sometimes they aren't. So $115 for 5 hours of their time. Good money? Not hardly.

I'd say the average age of a TSSAA official is 50+

All you have to do to become an official is go to www.tssaa.org pay your $70 and pass a background check and you're in. Oh yeah drop about $300 on your uniform and equipment and you're good to go. Hope to see some new faces next year instead of these 75 yr old men hanging on to get their 50 years of service award

An hour before game time?? Heck in our association, if you aren't there AT LEAST an hour and a half before gametime (two hours before is the "suggested" time to arrive) and one of the big Chiefs find out about it, there's almost certainly gonna be he¡¡ to pay. 

And that's not even taking into consideration having to leave your wage paying day job early every Friday to get somewhere over an hour away by 5:15PM for a 7 o'clock game that you're doing good to get home before midnight from if you shower after and stop somewhere for a bite to eat. 

 

This season, I'd guestimate my average time from when I left for a game to when I got home that night to be about 7 hours. My shortest was a 5.75 hour evening at a school a few miles down the street. My longest was 9.75 hours (3:30PM-1:15AM) for a high scoring game at the farthest away school our association services. 

Edited December 5, 2022 by crazzyness

[crazzyness]

18 hours ago, TryNotToSuck said:

It maybe $400 in the hole before his/her first game. However, that money can quickly be recouped by doing developmental games. Even if that person buys $400 dollars worth of equipment to start out, he's not going to spend $400 dollars on equipment in year 2. He/she will still wear the same shirt/pants/shoes.

I'm sure baseball umpires spend close to $500-$700 dollars in equipment to start their officiating career. Is that a lot of money to begin? Yes. But I'm sure he/she can wear the same shin guards, facemasks, pants, etc. for several years. If they have the luxury of umpiring 25 baseball games during the season, he/she can make close to $2,500. Not to mention the potential opportunity for baseball during the middle school season (in West Tennessee they begin that in February), and a handful of travel ball tournaments throughout the spring, summer, and, fall months. So they have the chance to rack up a lot of money if they work the games.

I'm sure we have several basketball officials working both middle school and high school seasons. Middle school plays on Monday/Thursday, and High School plays on Tuesday/Friday. Not to mention holiday classics/tournaments and Saturday games. Basketball season runs 3-4 months, so they can make that money back in like 5-6 nights they work.

I say let the TSSAA give each "new" official a $300 gift card to whatever store they purchased their equipment from. That's a start.

 

And that's a fair take, although let me say, the equipment doesn't last as long as you think. 

I'll use basketball for an example. First and foremost, between paying the state and paying the association/assigning fees, that's $235. In basketball, for me at least, shoes are paramount. Running in broken down shoes is dangerous. I gotta buy a new pair every year, $100. And the apparel isn't the best quality. I'm sweaty dude, I GOTTA wash the shirt after every single game. You run a mediocre quality garment through the laundry 60-70 times in 3 months, and the black fades to brown. So, a new shirt most years is a almost a necessity. $50. So, every single year, I'm dropping nearly $400 before the season starts. And you're right, that can be made back in 2 weeks, EASILY. But that's still like 15% of the season I'm working to just break even. 

 

And something I'm sure a lot of folks don't realize, the TSSAA (they gotta get their grimy hands on more cash anyway they can) signs apparel deals every few years with different companies. And with every new deal, the new company changes the uniform slightly, obviously to make back what they pay the TSSAA to be the exclusive TSSAA apparel provider. This year, we had to purchase replace our apparel for every sport. I bought new shirts/jackets last season for baseball that are now technically obsolete.

 

 

[tradertwo]

7 hours ago, TheLiaison said:

Reading comprehension is apparently a lost art. Not gonna say how I know that the salaries are accurate but let’s just say I “work closely” to public education. You completely missed the point that public ed uses a corporate model where administrators make tons of money and the little guy barely survives. When inflation goes up by 5% due to printing money, corporations raise their products by 5% and as a result workers wages are increased likewise. Government work (teaching, coaching, officiating, etc) are outside the economic market and are based upon tax revenue, not by selling products or services. Inflation goes up because of money printing and government wages stay the same. This is the case for teachers and officials. Why would someone become a teacher, coach, or official when they can flip burgers or work in retail for more money. Almost every corporation has given 5% raises this year because they’ve increased the price of their products. Officials don’t have a tangible product to sell and are at the mercy of working under a corporate model where all the money is hoarded at the top. 

My reading comprehension is just fine. I get what you're saying, but some of what you're saying is wrong. I'll see your "not gonna say how I know" and raise you with "I'm a 14-year member of the group who set the salaries", so my numbers are correct for here. Our teachers have gotten a 3.5% to 5% raise for the last several consecutive years, as well as a $500.00 Christmas Bonus, while the Director has been stagnant for the last 5. Let's not pretend that we're arguing... I completely agree that game officials need a significant raise (isn't that how this began?), but let's not blame capitalism or suggest that burger flippers (no offense... I love a good burger) and grocery baggers make more than our teachers (in 2020 ours avg. 58k annually across the entire system). If you feel that your schools are too "top heavy" with personnel or salaries, put your name on the ballot... you can make a difference in that manner, not so much on coachT.