Top 10 Head Coaches Power Rankings

[TotallynotLEO]

1 hour ago, Mason422 said:

 I am a retired military guy 

 

Sid Mason

Yet another thing we have in common Sid. 

[TotallynotLEO]

54 minutes ago, cowcatcherII said:

 

Someone posted this on a thread a few months ago and would love to get your thoughts on this. If you take an average kid that is willing to work hard and put him in an average public school do you think that same kid would be just as good if you put him in a program with built in monetary advantages like Cleveland or Baylor? 

 

That was me.  Point I'm trying to make is this.  It's not just one thing, it's a combination.  

It's the Jimmy's and Joe's and X's and O's. It's hard work and a good system from top to bottom. It's a feeder program that gives a good foundation for what is taught at the HS level. Success breeds success and attracts the kids that are driven.  Having facilities and equipment matter. Having the ability to travel and hit tournaments matters. Wrestling rewards experience more than any other sport.  

Many, probably most programs have only a few of those things, maybe just one or two.  Cleveland is rare that they have all those things.  None of it matters if there isn't work put in and they put it work.  

That's what I meant by taking a kid that's decent but willing to put in work, but in an average system.  Or doesn't get many good matches cause they dont travel. Or doesn't get to practice as much because they don't have room or facilities.  Or has average coaching. Or has average (or bad) practice partners.  Put him (or her)  in a complete program and they'll get better.  It's that simple. 

[RMC]

Money helps.........it allows for the travel.....lots of money to put 2 teams up in hotels and pay airfare to go to places like Kansas City or Powerade final 4.  I said 2 teams because we'd take the varsity and JV to the Cleveland and the State Duals.  

But.....it doesn't help if the team isn't competitive.  It's kids and parents buying in starting a elementary school. Wanting to be part of the something bigger....building a tradition.   

I can tell you from experience that someone can't just step in and keep a program on top.  As Knox did when he wrestled for Dublin. Georgia.......he's a competitor and something special.  It's hard to put a program on top.......harder to keep it there.    

[Mason422]

1 hour ago, cowcatcherII said:

Sid, 

I loved watching your son wrestle in HS and can't wait to follow him in college! Do you expect him to redshirt next year or will he have a chance to break into the lineup immediately? We will be pulling for him to represent TN!

Someone posted this on a thread a few months ago and would love to get your thoughts on this. If you take an average kid that is willing to work hard and put him in an average public school do you think that same kid would be just as good if you put him in a program with built in monetary advantages like Cleveland or Baylor? 

I think that's the point people are trying to make. I agree that anyone who claims Cleveland doesn't work hard is ill-informed, but the advantages to going to a school like Cleveland exist due to money. All that to say, there are outliers such as your son where you have parents that are invested and willing to make personal sacrifices to pay for outside coaching/training, but those are the outliers, in my opinion. 

Thanks for sharing. I always look forward to your posts as they are always super insightful!

This may be a little long but I will do my best to answer. To answer your question directly I think the average kid can be successful if they are willing to put in the work.  Having said that they will need dedicated parents, decent partners and a very good coach.  
 

I attribute Hunters success to this. We moved to an area that had a super good coach. “Joe Kemmerer”. Hunter held back in 8th grade and a kid from NC did the same and stayed at our house most of the year.  Those two along with Joe did a 3 hr private everyday, took an hour break then did a 2 hr club practice. There were times they was beaten up but they pushed through it and made huge jumps in their wrestling ability. 
 

Hunter starts HS and Randy Shelton and Atlas Fagundes gave him everything he needed and more. Got him into the best HS tournaments in the county and provided a tough room. They always gave him and others the option to leave practice early to go To club.  After Joe left, ”us hammer parents” mostly Rick Jacobs recruited Nahshon Garrett to run club and Hunter made another level jump. So hard work isn’t the only answer in my opinion, you must have good coaching and dedication from the parents and kids. 
 

Most of Hunters HS schedule was as follows. Leave the house at 5am to lift before school, do HS practice, run by the house grab a quick bite then drive an house to Kingsport to practice, return home around 9pm eat do homework and repeat.  Most kids aren’t willing to put that kind of Quality work in. 
 

a lot of people just quote hard work but it has to be quality hard work and Hunter was blessed to have quality coaches that cared about him. 
 

Hunter wasn’t ever naturally gifted as a wrestler. Heck his first year he got pinned almost every match.  It wasn’t until he completely dedicated himself that he started having success. If you ask him today he would still say he wasn’t good enough and he has to get better.  It’s his mindset that has helped him have a little bit of success in wrestling. 
 

we aren’t sure if he will start right away or not.  He’s doing very good in the room and Robie told him to be ready to go straight in. I trust the coaches completely and know they will do what’s best for him and the team.  I think Hunter would like to redshirt, but would also do whatever the coaches ask of him.  Thanks a bunch for keeping up with my boy. 
 

Sid
 

 

[cowcatcherII]

2 minutes ago, Mason422 said:

This may be a little long but I will do my best to answer. To answer your question directly I think the average kid can be successful if they are willing to put in the work.  Having said that they will need dedicated parents, decent partners and a very good coach.  
 

I attribute Hunters success to this. We moved to an area that had a super good coach. “Joe Kemmerer”. Hunter held back in 8th grade and a kid from NC did the same and stayed at our house most of the year.  Those two along with Joe did a 3 hr private everyday, took an hour break then did a 2 hr club practice. There were times they was beaten up but they pushed through it and made huge jumps in their wrestling ability. 
 

Hunter starts HS and Randy Shelton and Atlas Fagundes gave him everything he needed and more. Got him into the best HS tournaments in the county and provided a tough room. They always gave him and others the option to leave practice early to go To club.  After Joe left, ”us hammer parents” mostly Rick Jacobs recruited Nahshon Garrett to run club and Hunter made another level jump. So hard work isn’t the only answer in my opinion, you must have good coaching and dedication from the parents and kids. 
 

Most of Hunters HS schedule was as follows. Leave the house at 5am to lift before school, do HS practice, run by the house grab a quick bite then drive an house to Kingsport to practice, return home around 9pm eat do homework and repeat.  Most kids aren’t willing to put that kind of Quality work in. 
 

a lot of people just quote hard work but it has to be quality hard work and Hunter was blessed to have quality coaches that cared about him. 
 

Hunter wasn’t ever naturally gifted as a wrestler. Heck his first year he got pinned almost every match.  It wasn’t until he completely dedicated himself that he started having success. If you ask him today he would still say he wasn’t good enough and he has to get better.  It’s his mindset that has helped him have a little bit of success in wrestling. 
 

we aren’t sure if he will start right away or not.  He’s doing very good in the room and Robie told him to be ready to go straight in. I trust the coaches completely and know they will do what’s best for him and the team.  I think Hunter would like to redshirt, but would also do whatever the coaches ask of him.  Thanks a bunch for keeping up with my boy. 
 

Sid
 

 

Great post!!! A lot to be learned from this. Thank you!

[Mason422]

47 minutes ago, cobrakid8 said:

but how many state titles did that great Greeneville team win again with those studs that have been on it?

One and we are proud of it. 

[Mason422]

1 hour ago, cobrakid8 said:

Don't care if you agree or not and it doesn't take away their accomplishments, what would take away is everyone else by saying only he works hard enough to accomplish what he has at Cleveland and so I guess no one else works that hard and not even see the money and effort put into the program by those that aren't sitting on the mats during a match have helped make that happen!

It’s not just about hard work.  It’s about having knowledge to provide and motivate the kids to do the hard work. 
 

You and I can start digging a ditch right beside of each other.  You have a shovel and I have an excavator. You will work 10x harder than me but I will be more efficient and will do a better faster job.  That’s is what knox has done in my opinion 

[oceansize42]

22 minutes ago, Mason422 said:

This may be a little long but I will do my best to answer. To answer your question directly I think the average kid can be successful if they are willing to put in the work.  Having said that they will need dedicated parents, decent partners and a very good coach.  
 

I attribute Hunters success to this. We moved to an area that had a super good coach. “Joe Kemmerer”. Hunter held back in 8th grade and a kid from NC did the same and stayed at our house most of the year.  Those two along with Joe did a 3 hr private everyday, took an hour break then did a 2 hr club practice. There were times they was beaten up but they pushed through it and made huge jumps in their wrestling ability. 
 

Hunter starts HS and Randy Shelton and Atlas Fagundes gave him everything he needed and more. Got him into the best HS tournaments in the county and provided a tough room. They always gave him and others the option to leave practice early to go To club.  After Joe left, ”us hammer parents” mostly Rick Jacobs recruited Nahshon Garrett to run club and Hunter made another level jump. So hard work isn’t the only answer in my opinion, you must have good coaching and dedication from the parents and kids. 
 

Most of Hunters HS schedule was as follows. Leave the house at 5am to lift before school, do HS practice, run by the house grab a quick bite then drive an house to Kingsport to practice, return home around 9pm eat do homework and repeat.  Most kids aren’t willing to put that kind of Quality work in. 
 

a lot of people just quote hard work but it has to be quality hard work and Hunter was blessed to have quality coaches that cared about him. 
 

Hunter wasn’t ever naturally gifted as a wrestler. Heck his first year he got pinned almost every match.  It wasn’t until he completely dedicated himself that he started having success. If you ask him today he would still say he wasn’t good enough and he has to get better.  It’s his mindset that has helped him have a little bit of success in wrestling. 
 

we aren’t sure if he will start right away or not.  He’s doing very good in the room and Robie told him to be ready to go straight in. I trust the coaches completely and know they will do what’s best for him and the team.  I think Hunter would like to redshirt, but would also do whatever the coaches ask of him.  Thanks a bunch for keeping up with my boy. 
 

Sid
 

 

Sid knows me and I was there to watch a good portion of Hunter's work (yes, it was nuts, in a good way).  The beauty was that other kids saw his success and wanted to emulate and others kids saw he how hard he worked and said I'm good being roughly where I'm at within this sport.  There was no avoiding the lesson which was if you want it, then here is the blue print and the blue print is try and outwork me.  Each kid had to make a choice and each kid was smacked in the face every day with some hard truth. With a kid like Hunter (and Kodiak) at practice each and every day, well the other kids were tested, a lot.  There were zero easy practices. Zero.  

Edited June 14, 2023 by oceansize42

[cbg]

There is a lot of difference between having a few good individuals and having a great (Top 50) team.  Unless you reside in one of the top 5 wrestling states a team must become road warriors if they want to crack the Top 50 on a consistent basis.  IMO, money helps with travel, technique instruction, college kids that train with the high school kids and coaching.  The annual budget for a Top 50 program would be a minimum of $50K and that would include the youth program and high school team.  It's not free to run a successful wrestling program but kids only get better when they train and compete against the very best kids.  A majority of the teams in the Top 50 that are not in one of the top 5 wrestling states have a "SUGAR DADDY" that fund 80% of the program.  Money will not purchase kids that have a big heart that want to outwork the competition and get better.  

[TotallynotLEO]

3 hours ago, oceansize42 said:

Sid knows me and I was there to watch a good portion of Hunter's work (yes, it was nuts, in a good way).  The beauty was that other kids saw his success and wanted to emulate and others kids saw he how hard he worked and said I'm good being roughly where I'm at within this sport.  There was no avoiding the lesson which was if you want it, then here is the blue print and the blue print is try and outwork me.  Each kid had to make a choice and each kid was smacked in the face every day with some hard truth. With a kid like Hunter (and Kodiak) at practice each and every day, well the other kids were tested, a lot.  There were zero easy practices. Zero.  

I like this post a lot Ocean. We're at a different place with our program and kids.  Trying to establish and institute a culture change.  On a smaller level, our kids that are working harder,  wrestling more year round stuff,  are having more success.  You and I know that's what it takes, but the kids and parents have to see it and buy in. We are clawing our way up,  trying to anyways.  

[Mason422]

2 hours ago, TotallynotLEO said:

I like this post a lot Ocean. We're at a different place with our program and kids.  Trying to establish and institute a culture change.  On a smaller level, our kids that are working harder,  wrestling more year round stuff,  are having more success.  You and I know that's what it takes, but the kids and parents have to see it and buy in. We are clawing our way up,  trying to anyways.  

Have we ever met?  Hate these user names. Ha ha never know who I am talking to. 

[TotallynotLEO]

1 hour ago, Mason422 said:

Have we ever met?  Hate these user names. Ha ha never know who I am talking to. 

I don't think so. We just run is similar circles. We'll probably see you guys this year at the end of the season though.  

First beer's on me. 

Edited June 15, 2023 by TotallynotLEO