Road to title is private property

[rick7425]

LOL. While you are assuming, let's just assume the kids from 9 counties are all girls , in

wheelchairs, and not recruited at all, but just followed the yellow brick road to Possumtown.

 

If beneath your evident sarcasm you are suggesting that all private schools recruit for athletic purposes, I think you are making a mistaken assumption. It is of course true that some families with youngsters who appear to be athletically gifted may be attracted to certain schools where strong programs in particular sports are already in place. But that happens in both public and private schools. A family can enroll a child in an out-of-zone school as a 9th grader, something many public school systems permit, without any loss of eligibility (assuming he/she didn't play on another high school team as an 8th grader). Some public school systems in Tennessee have open zoning. Some public schools allow even out-of-county students to enroll for a fee. And it is not all that unusual for a family to move into a particular public school zone in order to send a child to a particular school, whether for academic reasons or other reasons including athletics.

 

Of course, if you can't get past the assumption that all private schools recruit for sports and no public schools do, then nothing else matters. But if you can accept the notion that there are some private schools where the people are good and believe in following the rules of their association and therefore don't recruit kids for sports, then the question remains -- in terms of a school's ability to compete in sports, what difference does it make if its kids come from one county or nine counties? I thought it was a legitimate question the first time I answered it, and I still do. Maybe your response indicates that you have no legitimate answer.

[Grunt]

If beneath your evident sarcasm you are suggesting that all private schools recruit for athletic purposes, I think you are making a mistaken assumption. It is of course true that some families with youngsters who appear to be athletically gifted may be attracted to certain schools where strong programs in particular sports are already in place. But that happens in both public and private schools. A family can enroll a child in an out-of-zone school as a 9th grader, something many public school systems permit, without any loss of eligibility (assuming he/she didn't play on another high school team as an 8th grader). Some public school systems in Tennessee have open zoning. Some public schools allow even out-of-county students to enroll for a fee. And it is not all that unusual for a family to move into a particular public school zone in order to send a child to a particular school, whether for academic reasons or other reasons including athletics.

 

Of course, if you can't get past the assumption that all private schools recruit for sports and no public schools do, then nothing else matters. But if you can accept the notion that there are some private schools where the people are good and believe in following the rules of their association and therefore don't recruit kids for sports, then the question remains -- in terms of a school's ability to compete in sports, what difference does it make if its kids come from one county or nine counties? I thought it was a legitimate question the first time I answered it, and I still do. Maybe your response indicates that you have no legitimate answer.

 

 

As I said, if you cannot see the difference in one and nine, it's not likely anyone can explain it

to you. Simple math! Temple had the same viewpoint...wasn't legit.

[rick7425]

As I said, if you cannot see the difference in one and nine, it's not likely anyone can explain it

to you. Simple math! Temple had the same viewpoint...wasn't legit.

 

To me, the simple math that makes sense is:

 

300 students = 300 students.

 

If no one is recruiting for athletic purposes, whether they come from one county or nine counties makes no difference. Whether they come from a small geographic zone or a larger geographic zone makes no difference. Whether they come from a sparsely populated area or a densely populated area makes no difference. Whether they come from a rural area or an urban area makes no difference.

 

I can see that there can be differences in the quality of coaching, the quality of facilities, parental support, community support, funding, and any number of other factors that may account for part of the relative difference in the success of some programs versus others. But between two schools with the same number of students, the area that the students come from -- assuming they are not recruited for sports -- is not something that makes a bit of difference as far as I can see, beyond whatever marginal differences may result from parents who are attracted to an already successful program and therefore decide to send their children to that school.

 

I've tried to articulate the way I see this issue. I had hoped for something in response other than just being told that if I don't get it already, no one can explain it to me. I'm actually quite interested in the logic behind the countervailing view. If the assumption is that the school drawing from the larger area is recruiting for athletics, then I understand the rationale -- I simply don't agree with it. But if there is some other reasoned explanation for concluding that unrecruited student-athletes from a larger geographic area are inherently better than the same number of student-athletes from a smaller geographic area, perhaps someone else on this board can offer it.

[Baldcoach]

Well, lets' see. One school gets kids from one county. Another school gets kids from 9 counties.

Now, if you can't see at least a possible advantage there, I don't think anyone could explain

it to you.

I may be a lot of things...naive isn't one of them. On the other hand, if I were a private, I'd

deny it too.

 

Both of having stated the usual public/private debate, the point of the post was the attitude

this so called Christian school shows. After the FCS/SP game the coach made some vulgar

remarks about SP. There have been several posters on here and in private conversation as

well, about the lack of respect, arrogance, and making enemies in general, of other schools.

There is a reason for the dislike....it's nothing new...the Tennessean just took the cover off

again.

 

 

 

 

Grunt,

 

I don't know what was said by anyone at the SP/Friendship game. SP schooled us this year and frankly I don't think they will see anyone who can stay on the field with them...they are as good as any team I have ever seen in 1a...probably would give Alcoa a good game or the 3a champs, whoever that may be. So I didn't even bother going to watch Vic and the boys play in the first few rounds...probably won't bother until the championship, might not even go then since I think it will be a slaughter. They are really that good.

 

But you didn't tell me HOW getting kids from a broader geographic area is an advantage. If a school charges 7k a year (I have no idea about specifics, just choosing a number in the range) to attend highschool, then given the financial capabilities of the surrounding population that school might actually have FEWER possible students than a free school that draws from 1 county.

 

Further, even if the potential pool is bigger (which it isn't), for the private to have an athletic advantage they would have to be going out and getting the best athletes in the pool and rejecting other applicants to gain an advantage. If they are simply taking the kids who show up then they are getting the same random sample of good/bad athletes that any school gets.

 

Finally, we can debate advantage all day, but the proof is in the pudding. All of a school's advantages and disadvantages show up in how that school performs. Compare TC's record for the last 10 years it has played 1a ball with Friendship's (or any private's). TC outperforms them all...if you are saying Friendship must have some advantage because they are playing good ball, how much more of an advantage must TC have?? Or South Pitt this year?? Or Alcoa, or Fulton, or Maryville, or Riverdale...all of whom have much better performance records than ANY private ever has?

 

Theoretical/non-showable 'advantages' are always trumped by performance since it is not only quantifiable but takes EVERYTHING into account. The best programs in the state are ALL public. One of them is TC. I'd say that puts them in a somewhat hypocritical position when they complain about ANY advantage other schools may or may not have.

[Bighurt]

. . . The best programs in the state are ALL public. . .

 

To be fair, the best programs in the state would have to include Brentwood Academy and arguably MBA, Goodpasture and Lipscomb as well.

 

I do see your point. Public schools like Maryville, Alcoa, Fulton, Trousdale County, South Pitt, Riverdale, Milan, etc. should be included among the best programs year in and year out. I am sure I left some out.

[PBandJ]

Well, don't give up your day job. Mind reading's just not your strong suit. Thsi comment is not

a new thing...maybe to you, but no one else. He was only asked in an interview lately. Been

interviewed many times before....same answer generally speaking. The complaint was and is

that FCS draws, as shown on their website, from 9 counties. Since TC has only one county

to draw from, the lack of fairness or at best, the potential, is rather obvious.

Last year was the first win of FCS over TC in a couple of decades, so it's not a question of

losing on anything resembling a regular basis. Prowess might be a bit of a stretch...much

improved, yes.

The behavior following the SP game, and the run the score up complaints, after you have done

the same to others, doesn't help your cause. The attitude of FCSs' fans, coaches, posters,

do not win you friends. In the eyes of many, not just TC, you have taken the Friendship and

Christian out of FCS. Coach Satterfield isn't now "suddenly complaining". The Tennessean

just brought it back up.

 

Oh no. I'm no FCS supporter here. I only support them in the sense that I live in Wilson Co and support all the teams here (yes, there is a pecking order with my MJ Bears #1), I know the coaches there and they are all very good men, and living and having grown up in Wilson Co I know many of the kids and their parents.

 

I find it funny that the "9 counties" situation has been that for years and years. I can name tons of kids that attended Friendship over the years that lived in other counties - boys and girls. It didn't get on his radar until Friendship started to beat them in football. He was more worried about the ABC privates in the Davidson metro areas and Friendship was just an annoying gnat that was hardly even a speed bump for 30 years. Now that the speed bump has recently turned into a hurdle, it is now an issue. /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" />

[Baldcoach]

To be fair, the best programs in the state would have to include Brentwood Academy and arguably MBA, Goodpasture and Lipscomb as well.

 

I do see your point. Public schools like Maryville, Alcoa, Fulton, Trousdale County, South Pitt, Riverdale, Milan, etc. should be included among the best programs year in and year out. I am sure I left some out.

 

 

Big,

 

I don't disagree that there are some good private programs. But the very best in each class, the ones that are powerhouses based on championships and performance for the last 10 years are all public. Trousdale: 3 1a championships (and 1 or 2 losses in the title game?) in 10 years (1 of 3 recently, 2 of 7 before they moved up into 3a) beats any private's record. Alcoa: 4 2a in a row (3 1a in a row in the 80s) and probably a 5th this year...slaughtered GP in the last 2 or 3 championship games. Fulton: 3 3a out of 4. Maryville 5 (6?) 4a in a row, nationally ranked, longest unbroken winning streak, looking good for this years title, Riverdale...holy cow!

 

All of these are better than any private has ever done...even BA at its peak (who was beaten in 2a by Marion County for their 3rd title in about 6 years if I'm not mistaken). You guys had 2 in a row in 1a. We had 1 OT loss to you guys, 1 win, and 1 OT loss to DCA all back to back. DCA had a couple of wins and a loss in 10 years. Lipscomb a 2a or 2, GP the same. But NONE of the privates have 5 in a row, a 4 in a row, a 3 of 4, or even a 3 in 10.

 

So I guess my point is that the VERY best publics have a much more dominating record than the VERY best privates...which just cuts the legs right out from under the 'privates have advantages publics just can't overcome' argument.

[VolunteerGeneral]

I thought the article was just stupid. I also thought the coaches continue to come across as whiners. This part of the article irks me to no end.

The talking points in the debate of private vs. public are familiar when it comes to competitive equity. They range from how privates can enroll students from a wide geographical base while publics have fixed local boundaries, to pronounced discrepancies in athletic budgets, to statistics that suggest private-school students are almost twice as likely as their public-school counterparts to be athletic participants.

 

 

What no one wants to discuss are these issues as they regard public schools. No one wants to talk about schools like Maryville who gets kids from all over or Memphis schools where kids can pick (free of charge) any school they wish to attend. And how can they even bring up athletic budgets? I`ve said before I can remember when we at JCM worked our butts off and raised 20,000 dollars for our baseball team and then read an article that Germantown (who was in our classification) had a budget of around 80,000 dollars for their baseball team. That`s the difference between inner city schools and wealthy suburban public schools.

 

Until these coaches want to REALLY discuss issues instead of acting like hypocrites, then I have no respect for them. They just want to find any difference they can about private schools yet they totally ignore the fact that the same differences exist in public schools.

 

This quote from Satterfield was so misleading.

"Let me screen boys from nine different counties. We'd do fine every year,"

 

Does this man actually think a private school just goes out and hand picks kids? These are the type comments that make me lose respect for these coaches. It`s so obvious that Satterfield has a vendetta against private schools and does not care about a level playing field. Why doesn`t the author of the story ask Satterfield what his thoughts are on Memphis schools that are allowed to get kids from all over? If Satterfield is so concerned about level playing fields then why does he never mention the most dominant football power on the state (Maryville) and how they allow kids from other counties to attend their school. Satterfiled just wants to make this a public/private debate. The truth is it`s an urban/rural debate. It`s a closed zone/open zone debate. It should not be public/private debate.

[JaxMan]

for years I have heard that the 1A bracket is always private...has anyone taken a look at it this morning...but you won't hear private supporters crying foul or asking for a change...

[zonepirate]

for years I have heard that the 1A bracket is always private...has anyone taken a look at it this morning...but you won't hear private supporters crying foul or asking for a change...

 

 

Hard to argue with that. I personally think it all goes in cycles

[Bighurt]

Hard to argue with that. I personally think it all goes in cycles

 

I agree.

 

I also think that South Pitt is going to be very tough to beat this year. However, Hampton might well give you all you want. I am sure both teams will be well prepared and ready to play their best.

[Solomon]

for years I have heard that the 1A bracket is always private...has anyone taken a look at it this morning...but you won't hear private supporters crying foul or asking for a change...

 

 

Just got in, just looked at it, was just about to post the same thing.

 

Mt. Pleasant & Hampton fans -

 

If neither of you win this year, I never want to hear one more whine about how unfair the system is.