7-AAA 2008-2009

[Alumn89]

i think 7AAA has a good shot at a sweep of 8 AAA

[MidTennFootball]

i think 7AAA has a good shot at a sweep of 8 AAA

 

 

I hope it happens, but the 1 team that has always spoiled the sweep (Shelbyville) is probably going to be able to do it again. Lebanon is going to need a great game to win at Columbia. I feel pretty good about Oakland's matchup. Worth noting that 6 of the 8 teams in the district tournament have at least 20 wins.

[mackie]

It is funny that of all the Oakland posters..OP you are by far the most consistant and knowledgable (sp?) person on here. It kinda upsets me when you do not acknowledge the coaching that went on tonight from the Siegel bench. My hats off to dotson and his staff on being district champs tonight! /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" />

 

 

I will start by saying that Siegel's talent level 1-10 is really solid. I was unaware of their depth.

I think if you take away the big 3, they still finish top 3 this year.

 

It appears that Dotson does a good job of keeping everyone happy by letting them play and not dictating where the ball goes too much. There is some value in that. However, here are a few things that I saw last night that lead me to a different conclusion then hoops stated above. Let it be known that this is not an attempt to bash Siegel. I liked the attitude and effort from this Siegel bunch a lot better then prior groups. I only point these things out in an attempt to identify some areas in which Siegel can improve, and in my opnion must improve to be successful against teams with similar talent as theirs.

 

1) It took 3.5 quarters before Siegel capitalized on the Hockenberry/Nelson mismatches. Hockenberry/Nelson was guarding Gooch or Tate most of the night, but the Stars were too impatient to try and exploit it. They attempted to go inside one or two times early, but Oakland made it a little difficult and Siegel seemed to just abandon it. If they had continued going inside early and often, the game would have been over a lot sooner.

 

2) At the end of the half, Siegel holds the ball for one shot and it ends up being a Nicholas three from the top of the key without any passes or penetration. There didn't appear to be any play or set called. They are too talented to settle for a shot such as that.

 

3) Starting the third quarter, Siegel has first possession and again the shot that was taken was a turnaround, fading, contested jumper by Williams (it might of been Mitchell, not certain). Again, no patience whatsoever in attempting to exploit a matchup or at least get it in the hands of one of the top 3 in a favorable spot on the floor.

 

4) Siegel's "improved" half court defense gave up a number of uncontested 3's to Hockenberry, Nelson, and Adams. Oakland hit 4 of those open looks in the first half and it kept them in the game. Adams 3 at the end of first quarter (while Siegel was celebrating Gooch's dunk) was huge as it negated some of Siegel's momentum. Also, I thought Oakland should have tried to get Hockenberry a couple more looks early on as he was obviously feeling good about his shot. However, I could have done without all the looking in the crowd after his made 3's).

 

5) In addition to the 3's, at the end of the 3rd Hughes goes coast to coast with no one even coming close to stopping the ball. Oakland also got numerous open looks inside because of their patience on offense and Siegel's lack of defensive helpside and rotations. Siegel became antsy after about 10 seconds into a possession and Oakland capitalized early. As the game wore on though, Oakland struggled to keep that patience especially after Tate went to work inside and opened a little bit of a lead for the Stars.

 

 

As far as talent goes, Oakland has some good players but in comparison to Siegel, they don't have anyone that would bump Hammonds, Gooch, Mitchell, or Tate out of the starting lineup. Hughes would most likely be able to move into the 5th starting spot. And due to Siegel's need for a true point guard, Hockenberry might be able to fill that roll as a starter. Siegel's talent, height, and athleticism across the board is much better then Oakland's and it allowed them to win last night. For these reasons, I think it's hard to make the claim that Oakland was outcoached.

 

If you put Dotson on Oakland's bench and King on Siegel's bench, does a Dotson-lead Oakland team make it a dog fight like last night? Won't ever know, but it does help in trying to assess who was better coached last night.

[Treyvols99]

i think 7AAA has a good shot at a sweep of 8 AAA

 

 

 

If either district was to sweep it would be 7AAA but thats not happening. For those who say Columbia is overrated your misinformed imo and Shelbyville will hopefuilly beat Cookeville for the second time this season so Twilley gets another shot to play his senior year.

[TronCarter]

I will start by saying that Siegel's talent level 1-10 is really solid. I was unaware of their depth.

I think if you take away the big 3, they still finish top 3 this year.

 

It appears that Dotson does a good job of keeping everyone happy by letting them play and not dictating where the ball goes too much. There is some value in that. However, here are a few things that I saw last night that lead me to a different conclusion then hoops stated above. Let it be known that this is not an attempt to bash Siegel. I liked the attitude and effort from this Siegel bunch a lot better then prior groups. I only point these things out in an attempt to identify some areas in which Siegel can improve, and in my opnion must improve to be successful against teams with similar talent as theirs.

 

1) It took 3.5 quarters before Siegel capitalized on the Hockenberry/Nelson mismatches. Hockenberry/Nelson was guarding Gooch or Tate most of the night, but the Stars were too impatient to try and exploit it. They attempted to go inside one or two times early, but Oakland made it a little difficult and Siegel seemed to just abandon it. If they had continued going inside early and often, the game would have been over a lot sooner.

 

2) At the end of the half, Siegel holds the ball for one shot and it ends up being a Nicholas three from the top of the key without any passes or penetration. There didn't appear to be any play or set called. They are too talented to settle for a shot such as that.

 

3) Starting the third quarter, Siegel has first possession and again the shot that was taken was a turnaround, fading, contested jumper by Williams (it might of been Mitchell, not certain). Again, no patience whatsoever in attempting to exploit a matchup or at least get it in the hands of one of the top 3 in a favorable spot on the floor.

 

4) Siegel's "improved" half court defense gave up a number of uncontested 3's to Hockenberry, Nelson, and Adams. Oakland hit 4 of those open looks in the first half and it kept them in the game. Adams 3 at the end of first quarter (while Siegel was celebrating Gooch's dunk) was huge as it negated some of Siegel's momentum. Also, I thought Oakland should have tried to get Hockenberry a couple more looks early on as he was obviously feeling good about his shot. However, I could have done without all the looking in the crowd after his made 3's).

 

5) In addition to the 3's, at the end of the 3rd Hughes goes coast to coast with no one even coming close to stopping the ball. Oakland also got numerous open looks inside because of their patience on offense and Siegel's lack of defensive helpside and rotations. Siegel became antsy after about 10 seconds into a possession and Oakland capitalized early. As the game wore on though, Oakland struggled to keep that patience especially after Tate went to work inside and opened a little bit of a lead for the Stars.

 

 

As far as talent goes, Oakland has some good players but in comparison to Siegel, they don't have anyone that would bump Hammonds, Gooch, Mitchell, or Tate out of the starting lineup. Hughes would most likely be able to move into the 5th starting spot. And due to Siegel's need for a true point guard, Hockenberry might be able to fill that roll as a starter. Siegel's talent, height, and athleticism across the board is much better then Oakland's and it allowed them to win last night. For these reasons, I think it's hard to make the claim that Oakland was outcoached.

 

If you put Dotson on Oakland's bench and King on Siegel's bench, does a Dotson-lead Oakland team make it a dog fight like last night? Won't ever know, but it does help in trying to assess who was better coached last night.

 

 

 

I agree and disagree with your statement.

 

I thought that Randy really had his kids ready to play, as always, but I kind of feel like he took them out of their rhythm to start the third quarter, and they never recovered.

 

They went into their "stall" on the opening possessions of the second half after running with Siegel toe to toe in the first half. They didn't get a good look in those possessions and then Dotson pulled his trump card by playing the halfcourt trap for a few minutes to speed the Patroits back up......... that is where the Stars started to slowly build a lead.

 

King is in a tough spot against Siegel (when Siegel is paying attention to detail on defense), because it is hard to run with them, BUT, the best looks Hockenberry, Nelson, and Adams are going to get are in transition. The Stars are long and can affect shots in the halfcourt, which led to some missed "bunnies" by Oakland later on. I actually thought Oakland was better served last night running........shoot, they were right there in the game at the half, in a game with a reasonably fast pace.

 

Siegel just has too many bodies and too many guys that can beat you. I kind of like the edge they played with last night. BJ and Kerry were going at it, physically and verbally, all night. Never escalated too far, but they both had their competitiveness going. Just a great atmosphere for a championship game.

[rooktook]

what do you mean? they both can make it past the region, tey can both make it to the state tournament

 

 

Not only CAN they both make it...I think they both WILL make it!

 

And I didn't mean to say that Oakland doenst have talent...because they do...but in comparison, they are not on the talent level of Siegel.

 

Looking into the crowd after a made 3 is just a kid being a kid...not a big deal, let's not make it one.

[icecold06]

Not only CAN they both make it...I think they both WILL make it!

 

And I didn't mean to say that Oakland doenst have talent...because they do...but in comparison, they are not on the talent level of Siegel.

 

Looking into the crowd after a made 3 is just a kid being a kid...not a big deal, let's not make it one.

 

Agreed Siegel has the overall talent to make it to the Murphy Center and Oakland is good enough defensively to make it I dont think any chattanooga teams are good enought to make it past oakland or siegel( gosh it sickens me to say that) Walker Valley is the most dangerous team from that area but I dont think they can run with siegel and oakland is better defensively

[SiegelGrad]

I think that loss to Oakland only helped us reestablish our focus this season. Right now I feel we are very focused and hungry to make it to the state. I dont know if we can keep this focus, but I like our chances after last night. That is the most focused Siegel team I have seen play. I think Oakland could legitimately make it to state as well. Regions should be interesting for everyone with a team in it.

[Alumn89]

trey, how much will twilley not playing affect shelbyville? i think it makes for an interesting scenario. Shelbyville and Cookeville has had some close battles over the last several years, shelbyville having the upper hand recently. What do you think the keys are for the game?

 

I also want to say that Oakland did an amazing job last night until the last quarter. Even still, if they hit free throws and a WIDE OPEN layup, it may be a different outcome.

[mackie]

I agree and disagree with your statement.

 

I thought that Randy really had his kids ready to play, as always, but I kind of feel like he took them out of their rhythm to start the third quarter, and they never recovered.

 

They went into their "stall" on the opening possessions of the second half after running with Siegel toe to toe in the first half. They didn't get a good look in those possessions and then Dotson pulled his trump card by playing the halfcourt trap for a few minutes to speed the Patroits back up......... that is where the Stars started to slowly build a lead.

 

King is in a tough spot against Siegel (when Siegel is paying attention to detail on defense), because it is hard to run with them, BUT, the best looks Hockenberry, Nelson, and Adams are going to get are in transition. The Stars are long and can affect shots in the halfcourt, which led to some missed "bunnies" by Oakland later on. I actually thought Oakland was better served last night running........shoot, they were right there in the game at the half, in a game with a reasonably fast pace.

 

Siegel just has too many bodies and too many guys that can beat you. I kind of like the edge they played with last night. BJ and Kerry were going at it, physically and verbally, all night. Never escalated too far, but they both had their competitiveness going. Just a great atmosphere for a championship game.

 

 

Welcome to the fray Tron. I appreciate the thoughtful insight. I agree that Oakland's matchups create a tough call for King. As you stated, if Siegel is focused on defense, it should be near impossible for Oakland to get off uncontested perimeter shots (especially from Hockenberry, Nelson, and Adams). However, only one of the four first half 3's (Adams at end of 1st quarter) came in transition. Hockenberry had two more open looks in the second half, but couldn't connect. Neither of those looks were in transition. Siegel was able to overcome the open looks because as you said, they have too many bodies and too many offensive weapons compared to Oakland. But it is something that could haunt them if they do not get out and cover shooters as they progress in the post-season.

 

The first half was a little more up and down then I expected and the tempo constantly teetered right on the verge of a track meet, but I don't think it ever quite got to that point. Oakland chose to run at times, but for the most part they ran continual motion type offensive sets. They started the game in a guard to guard perimeter hand-off motion (could be labeled as a "stall") in an effort to force the Stars to play defense for longer periods of time then they wanted to. Also in the first half, Oakland ran a variation of a flex set to again try to create lengthy offensive possessions. I don't think Oakland did anything different in the 3rd then what they had been doing in the first half.

 

It was a one point game going into the last frame. About 2 minutes in, Siegel got 3 big baskets inside (Tate x2 and Hammonds) and Oakland didn't respond. That's where the Stars built a slight lead and Oakland wasn't able to recover. I will say this, Siegel won the game on the free throw line. Oakland did everything they could to make a push after Siegel's inside baskets, but Siegel maintained their pad by knocking down FTs down the stretch.

[MidTennFootball]

No argument here, some great points being made..............

[Treyvols99]

trey, how much will twilley not playing affect shelbyville? i think it makes for an interesting scenario. Shelbyville and Cookeville has had some close battles over the last several years, shelbyville having the upper hand recently. What do you think the keys are for the game?

 

I also want to say that Oakland did an amazing job last night until the last quarter. Even still, if they hit free throws and a WIDE OPEN layup, it may be a different outcome.

 

 

 

Losing Twilley for yet another game will be very difficult for Shelbyville because Cookeville is a solid team. Top to bottom district 7AAA is a better district as far as matcups go. I think Shelbyville should still win with the talent they have and they are a quicker team than Cookeville. Andrews will be the difference maker Saturday night as if he shoots poorly they will be in trouble, but if you have kept up with him at all the last two years he does not have many bad nights. Last night he was double teamed all night and still managed to score 32 points. Seth Jerrell is a 6'4'' sophmore who continues to get better every time out on the court so his size down low will help out as well. Also Shelbyville plays great defense like Oakland and that keeps them in a position to win every night they step out on the court. I truly hope Coach Thomas has the boys ready to play so that we all get to watch four top notch teams battle it out on Tuesday night. Talk about getting your $6 dollars worth!!!!