INDY- How does 2009 Look Like

[SwamiSays]

Just for kicks and giggles I will reply to this with the facts.

 

1. I did not say push an average or less talented athlete! re-read my post! I said and I quote "Blue chip players are not missed. Kids with talent are every day and every year. Why because the player did not get exposure!" That is EXACTLY what I said!

 

2. I am talking about players who CAN play at the next level either at DI or NAIA but are GOOD ENOUGH to play at the next level! I did not say the kid who is on the team just to say he plays!

 

3. I agree that the coaches reputation is on the line and SHOULD NOT PUSH PLAYERS WHO CANNOT MAKE IT OR DO NOT HAVE THE GRADES! However, my argument is that many coaches and parents of student-athletes who ARE CAPABLE and HAVE THE GRADES to play at the next level are not working hard enough to get that person noticed! There are many coaches (not all!) who don't do much or work hard in this department!

 

4. We agree on this. Players who do right and work hard and have the grades and talent should get a shot!

 

5. As for your other comments I will only address this once! I have had very successful runs in HS as a multi-sport all-conference player, as a DI scholarship multi-sport athlete with ALL-AMERICAN RECOGNITION IN ONE OF THEM, and in my stints as a coach of mutiple HS sports and have a winning record in EVERY ONE THAT I HAVE COACHED AND HAVE GOTTEN PLAYERS IN SCHOOL!

 

Let us remember what the point of this thread is. What is INDY GOING TO DO NEXT?! That is what we all want to see and only hope for the best for those kids who are doing the right things!

 

 

 

-Say hello...to the BADGUY!

 

 

What does "kids with talent are every day every year mean?" That is a little nonsensical. Williamson county or any other county doesnt have D1 or D2 talent in high numbers, as you seem to be suggesting. To think that is the parents job, other than to pass along some genetics, to get a kid a scholarship is naive. If there are so many kids running around Williamson county that are D1 or even D2 talent, why are there so many out of state kids on Vandy, UT, MU, MTSU, UTC, etc. etc.? Come on. It sounds like you should be very aware of how special a kid of that level of talent is, and yet you want to minimize it.

There is not that much D1 or D2 talent in any county, thats just the way it is. Its special. Moms and coaches cant change that.

[badguy]

What does "kids with talent are every day every year mean?" That is a little nonsensical. Williamson county or any other county doesnt have D1 or D2 talent in high numbers, as you seem to be suggesting. To think that is the parents job, other than to pass along some genetics, to get a kid a scholarship is naive. If there are so many kids running around Williamson county that are D1 or even D2 talent, why are there so many out of state kids on Vandy, UT, MU, MTSU, UTC, etc. etc.? Come on. It sounds like you should be very aware of how special a kid of that level of talent is, and yet you want to minimize it.

There is not that much D1 or D2 talent in any county, thats just the way it is. Its special. Moms and coaches cant change that.

 

 

 

Here is what kids with talent who are missed means. I am talking about the kid how has a good tape solid in the upscale dept. qualifies in the grades dept but because he has not yet filled out body wise or may be only a one year starter and some universities want impact and or ready made players instead of doing some development. These schools go in a different direction or that A school did not know about a kid until after the fact for whatever reason and missed out. This DOES happen. Am I saying that player sould be D1...only if he is. If not then that player needs to see what his options and his ability can get him. What I have witnessed is players who CAN play D1/D1 subdivision ball and because his talent was everything but a inch taller and 10lbs. heaver land him in DII. If you think I am kidding ask you self this question...Why do JUCO's not go out of business?! Or for that fact "Prep Schools"? In some cases its grades...in others it is because some thought that he does not fit our mold. However, between a half a year to two years SOME (not all) get a shot. But this for THAT player could have been time well spent learning at that university their system and developing against better talent and arguably better coaching.

 

In regards to talent in Williamson County, I do believe that the talent is there and can be developed into something special. The same can be said for Metro or Chat. or pick your place (Alcoa or Maryville anyone?) Within reason, with solid numbers, and a good support system athletically and academically. The bigger problem is not a shortage of athletes in a number of cases it is the shortage of athletes who qualify ACADEMICALLY! This is not a shot being taken on Williamson county or Metro but a general fact accross the board. Players with talent, tape, and grades get in when and if someone is working! The catch is working those who have these credentials and improving and increasing the number of athletes who have these credentials.

 

In regards to high numbers here is my question what do you call high numbers? My Idea my be different than yours. You also have to remember that if a program is not strong football wise you cannot expect "numbers" . Getting kids in who EARN a chance is my big thing. If they do their part sould not others do their part? If not why play TEAM sports?

 

One other thing here is what you said and I quote you Swami " If there are so many kids running around Williamson county that are D1 or even D2 talent, why are there so many out of state kids on Vandy, UT, MU, MTSU, UTC, etc. etc.?"

 

ANSWER:

 

1. Grades: Does this player qualify academically? Talent but no grades equals no scholarship or opportunity at the next level! There is plenty of talent that does not clear the clearinghouse!

 

2. Recruting: Coaching staffs have pipelines and connections accross the country. Be limited or limitless?

 

3. Player choice: Some players DO NOT WANT TO STAY IN STATE!

 

4. Players are not getting exposed or pushed: Some coaches MAY not be good at evaluation, presenting their players, building relationships, or staying on top of the game in regards to getting their kids in. For some coaches this is not high on their list of things to do and for SOME that IS A FACT!

 

5. Are players being developed at the H.S. level to play at the next level? What do Universitys use to "sell" their program...The ability to get you the coaching and experience to have an OPPORTUNITY at a shot at the next level!

 

6. What is that university looking for that year? If you do not have but only ten contacts at the next level and you only send tape to ten schools you may not see a player play on Sat. on the next level if you only have wide outs and your contacts are looking for linebackers! You have great players but you dont have a place for them to go. This goes back to the exposure point!

 

7. What type of relationships do coaches have with other coaches? Sometimes it is who you know! You should know that!

 

8. How many D1, D1 sub. division, DII, DIII, NAIA, JUCO's are there Swami in the US? How many players are there in Williamson county? Do the math... But that means someone has to actually WORK!

 

9. You and I are for the most part on the same page Swami. How do I know? Because this is what you said in another thread...and I quote

 

"High school coaches usually build relationships with college coaches and scouts. College coaches come to respect the opinion of HS coaches based on a fair and honest assessment of their athletes. A lot of uninformed people think that HS coaches should be pushing to get their kids into college programs, which only on the surface is true. However, if a HS coach touts a player, and the player is a bust at the next level, the college coach doesnt come back to that well any more, and the possibility of a kid who really can play at the next level can be missed because of an overzealous hs coach trying to get his players into college programs. HS coaches have to be very careful and very honest with their recommendations to college coaches.

Its a mutual thing between hs and college coaches.

If an hs athlete is wanting to get to the next level, he needs to talk to his coach. Find out where he needs to improve, what it takes at the next level, train and play as hard as he can, hope he has enough natural talent, and keep his grades up. HS coaches are pretty good at knowing what next level (D1, D2, etc.) a kid can play at. When a matching program puts out the word that they are looking for a position or player, then the hs coach may have someone in mind.

I assume we are not talkig about the 4 and 5 star athletes...they advertise themselves by their ability and level of play, no matter the coach or program they play for. "

 

My point? The devil is in the details! (See points 1-8 and above commentary.) /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" />

 

 

 

Swami, I am going to let you have the last word here. I have said my say. I am only here and interested in INDY's improvement (on this thread). I believe that INDY is going to improve and be a legit and serious player in 09! The schedule in rough and they need to get serious so they can get wins and make a run! All this other stuff is fun to say "this,that,who, what, where is" but even you know winning solves a lot of problems! Winning solves who goes where or if they can go for the most part IF that player qualifies academically!

 

School is now out Boys and Girls!

 

 

 

-Say hello...to the BADGUY!

[SwamiSays]

Here is what kids with talent who are missed means. I am talking about the kid how has a good tape solid in the upscale dept. qualifies in the grades dept but because he has not yet filled out body wise or may be only a one year starter and some universities want impact and or ready made players instead of doing some development. These schools go in a different direction or that A school did not know about a kid until after the fact for whatever reason and missed out. This DOES happen. Am I saying that player sould be D1...only if he is. If not then that player needs to see what his options and his ability can get him. What I have witnessed is players who CAN play D1/D1 subdivision ball and because his talent was everything but a inch taller and 10lbs. heaver land him in DII. If you think I am kidding ask you self this question...Why do JUCO's not go out of business?! Or for that fact "Prep Schools"? In some cases its grades...in others it is because some thought that he does not fit our mold. However, between a half a year to two years SOME (not all) get a shot. But this for THAT player could have been time well spent learning at that university their system and developing against better talent and arguably better coaching.

 

In regards to talent in Williamson County, I do believe that the talent is there and can be developed into something special. The same can be said for Metro or Chat. or pick your place (Alcoa or Maryville anyone?) Within reason, with solid numbers, and a good support system athletically and academically. The bigger problem is not a shortage of athletes in a number of cases it is the shortage of athletes who qualify ACADEMICALLY! This is not a shot being taken on Williamson county or Metro but a general fact accross the board. Players with talent, tape, and grades get in when and if someone is working! The catch is working those who have these credentials and improving and increasing the number of athletes who have these credentials.

 

In regards to high numbers here is my question what do you call high numbers? My Idea my be different than yours. You also have to remember that if a program is not strong football wise you cannot expect "numbers" . Getting kids in who EARN a chance is my big thing. If they do their part sould not others do their part? If not why play TEAM sports?

 

One other thing here is what you said and I quote you Swami " If there are so many kids running around Williamson county that are D1 or even D2 talent, why are there so many out of state kids on Vandy, UT, MU, MTSU, UTC, etc. etc.?"

 

ANSWER:

 

1. Grades: Does this player qualify academically? Talent but no grades equals no scholarship or opportunity at the next level! There is plenty of talent that does not clear the clearinghouse!

 

2. Recruting: Coaching staffs have pipelines and connections accross the country. Be limited or limitless?

 

3. Player choice: Some players DO NOT WANT TO STAY IN STATE!

 

4. Players are not getting exposed or pushed: Some coaches MAY not be good at evaluation, presenting their players, building relationships, or staying on top of the game in regards to getting their kids in. For some coaches this is not high on their list of things to do and for SOME that IS A FACT!

 

5. Are players being developed at the H.S. level to play at the next level? What do Universitys use to "sell" their program...The ability to get you the coaching and experience to have an OPPORTUNITY at a shot at the next level!

 

6. What is that university looking for that year? If you do not have but only ten contacts at the next level and you only send tape to ten schools you may not see a player play on Sat. on the next level if you only have wide outs and your contacts are looking for linebackers! You have great players but you dont have a place for them to go. This goes back to the exposure point!

 

7. What type of relationships do coaches have with other coaches? Sometimes it is who you know! You should know that!

 

8. How many D1, D1 sub. division, DII, DIII, NAIA, JUCO's are there Swami in the US? How many players are there in Williamson county? Do the math... But that means someone has to actually WORK!

 

9. You and I are for the most part on the same page Swami. How do I know? Because this is what you said in another thread...and I quote

 

"High school coaches usually build relationships with college coaches and scouts. College coaches come to respect the opinion of HS coaches based on a fair and honest assessment of their athletes. A lot of uninformed people think that HS coaches should be pushing to get their kids into college programs, which only on the surface is true. However, if a HS coach touts a player, and the player is a bust at the next level, the college coach doesnt come back to that well any more, and the possibility of a kid who really can play at the next level can be missed because of an overzealous hs coach trying to get his players into college programs. HS coaches have to be very careful and very honest with their recommendations to college coaches.

Its a mutual thing between hs and college coaches.

If an hs athlete is wanting to get to the next level, he needs to talk to his coach. Find out where he needs to improve, what it takes at the next level, train and play as hard as he can, hope he has enough natural talent, and keep his grades up. HS coaches are pretty good at knowing what next level (D1, D2, etc.) a kid can play at. When a matching program puts out the word that they are looking for a position or player, then the hs coach may have someone in mind.

I assume we are not talkig about the 4 and 5 star athletes...they advertise themselves by their ability and level of play, no matter the coach or program they play for. "

 

My point? The devil is in the details! (See points 1-8 and above commentary.) /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" />

 

 

 

Swami, I am going to let you have the last word here. I have said my say. I am only here and interested in INDY's improvement (on this thread). I believe that INDY is going to improve and be a legit and serious player in 09! The schedule in rough and they need to get serious so they can get wins and make a run! All this other stuff is fun to say "this,that,who, what, where is" but even you know winning solves a lot of problems! Winning solves who goes where or if they can go for the most part IF that player qualifies academically!

 

School is now out Boys and Girls!

 

 

 

-Say hello...to the BADGUY!

 

 

Holy crap...I honestly didnt read that whole thing. What a diatribe. You totally blew every point you followed up with by saying guys havent "filled out yet". So colleges are supposed to take chances on guys who have not filled out yet too? Not only does their play not make then stand out to scouts, neither does their size. And colleges are to take chances on both? Please tell me that is not what you are saying.

Colleges have no problems filling out their rosters with kids who already have size and talent. Thats why they signed them. Why bother on kids that have neither and give a scholarship to one of those kids and lose a spot for a kid that has both? If a kid does fill out after hs, they can walkon. But most college coaches are not going to take the chance of wasting a scholarship on an undeveloped athlete when he has the option of signing a kid who is already "there"

Class dismissed, young one.

[badguy]

I said I was done but since you did not read the whole post then you MISSED why I said what I said. However, Even you know that coaches do take upside and potential on a case by case basis. I know of a few D1 schools who have taken this action and they are quite happy with their choice (and a few who are kicking themselves for not pulling the trigger!)! SECOND, I SAID THAT THE PLAYER HAS TALENT,TAPE AND GRADES and some are missed because "his talent was everything but a inch taller and 10lbs. heaver" not and I quote you:

 

" Not only does their play not make then stand out to scouts, neither does their size. And colleges are to take chances on both? Please tell me that is not what you are saying."

 

so what YOU said is NOT WHAT I AM SAYING! But since you do not bother to cover all your bases in your argument by reading all of my post this is EXACTLY why players are missed. Beisdes what player looks like the same player as a SENIOR in HS ans he does after 6months to a year of college ball at a serious program! THEY DON'T! WHY? BECAUSE THAT HAVE STARTED TO FILL OUT, ARE EATING RIGHT, AND WORKING OUT EVEN HARDER! You sir have exactly higlighted my WHOLE argument!

 

Go back to class sir, work on your reading skills, if you are a coach get ready for next season, and if you are a parent help your child get better. If you are just a fan just sit back and enjoy the ride and support your team.

 

For sir "you have been weighted, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. Come back when you're worthy." (A Knights Tail 2001)

 

-Say hello...to the BADGUY!

[mindlesschatter]

NOT WHAT I AM SAYING! But since you do not bother to cover all your bases in your argument by reading all of my post...

 

For you sir have been weighted, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. Come back when you're worthy.

 

-

 

 

first - it would be easier to respond if you didn't write a novel with each post... second - if you don't give source of where you steal quotes from it is considered plagirism...

[SwamiSays]

I said I was done but since you did not read the whole post then you MISSED why I said what I said. However, Even you know that coaches do take upside and potential on a case by case basis. I know of a few D1 schools who have taken this action and they are quite happy with their choice (and a few who are kicking themselves for not pulling the trigger!)! SECOND, I SAID THAT THE PLAYER HAS TALENT,TAPE AND GRADES and some are missed because "his talent was everything but a inch taller and 10lbs. heaver" not and I quote you:

 

" Not only does their play not make then stand out to scouts, neither does their size. And colleges are to take chances on both? Please tell me that is not what you are saying."

 

so what YOU said is NOT WHAT I AM SAYING! But since you do not bother to cover all your bases in your argument by reading all of my post this is EXACTLY why players are missed. Beisdes what player looks like the same player as a SENIOR in HS ans he does after 6months to a year of college ball at a serious program! THEY DON'T! WHY? BECAUSE THAT HAVE STARTED TO FILL OUT, ARE EATING RIGHT, AND WORKING OUT EVEN HARDER! You sir have exactly higlighted my WHOLE argument!

 

Go back to class sir, work on your reading skills, if you are a coach get ready for next season, and if you are a parent help your child get better. If you are just a fan just sit back and enjoy the ride and support your team.

 

For you sir have been weighted, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. Come back when you're worthy.

 

-Say hello...to the BADGUY!

 

 

wow...you just are not very good at logical debate, or at keeping your word, are you?

 

If a college coach is looking at a kid and saying if only he were an inch taller...then what you claim isnt happening (kids not getting seen by colleges) has indeed happened. Oops.

 

You original premise was that coaches and parents are not doing enough to get their kids seen. Now your argument is something different.

 

You, young one, have just disproved your own argument. And proved mine. Players are not being missed. They are being passed over after being assessed. Being passed over is completely different than being missed.

And now, young one, as your lack of integrity has been shown by your need to have the last word and proven by the inability to keep you word, I will show an example of being a man of honor and intergrity and allow you the last word. You have been proven wrong, and it was done by your own words. There is nothing left for me to say, and your future words will only further prove my points, both about the topic of this debate and the assessment of who you are as a poster. I know you won't let me down.

Have a nice day. I hope you deal with the angst you cant seem to control. You will be a happier person when you reach the level of maturity to handle your inner demons.

Game, set, match.

[badguy]

first - it would be easier to respond if you didn't write a novel with each post... second - if you don't give source of where you steal quotes from it is considered plagirism...

 

 

 

 

I guess I should not be very detailed when people have questions or question me in regards to the facts and or a situation...and where did $300 Billion+ go LOL! /ph34r.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":ph34r:" border="0" alt="ph34r.gif" />

 

 

At least someone out here reads...or goes to the movies! LOL /popcorneater.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":popcorneater:" border="0" alt="popcorneater.gif" /> /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" />

 

The quote is used by the characters Adhemar and William Thacher in the 2001 movie "A Knights Tale" and of course by me a number of time since along with other quotes (I will edit by previous post to stay compliant). However, if I ever decide to quote again out here I will give proper credit to the source and pay the coresponding royalties and user fees /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" /> !

 

And just for kicks: Is it stealing when you use another teams offense and defense and beat the snot out of them or just good coaching? (I am having a good day so I could not resist!).

 

 

 

-Say hello...to the BADGUY!

[hsfbfan1]

I guess I should not be very detailed when people have questions or question me in regards to the facts and or a situation...and where did $300 Billion+ go LOL! /ph34r.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":ph34r:" border="0" alt="ph34r.gif" />

 

 

At least someone out here reads...or goes to the movies! LOL /popcorneater.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":popcorneater:" border="0" alt="popcorneater.gif" /> /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" />

 

The quote is used by the characters Adhemar and William Thacher in the 2001 movie "A Knights Tale" and of course by me a number of time since along with other quotes (I will edit by previous post to stay compliant). However, if I ever decide to quote again out here I will give proper credit to the source and pay the coresponding royalties and user fees /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" /> !

 

And just for kicks: Is it stealing when you use another teams offense and defense and beat the snot out of them or just good coaching? (I am having a good day so I could not resist!).

 

 

 

-Say hello...to the BADGUY!

 

 

 

 

 

Is it stealing when you use another teams offense and defense and beat the snot out of them or just good coaching? (I am having a good day so I could not resist!).

Ouch!

[sarahpalin]

first - it would be easier to respond if you didn't write a novel with each post... second - if you don't give source of where you steal quotes from it is considered plagirism...

 

Hello from Florida-as a coacg for 15 years in Chicago and now evaluating talent for a big 10 team in the Florida area I will tell you that coaching youth thru high school does not match middle tn(wilco co)

The fact is their is much better talent in this state of Fl.

Someome on this post asked why not many wilco players go D1 and all you need to do is simple math,look at number of d1 schools and the number of kids playing football in the usa-

Anyways how will indys foes look like this year any pre pre pre preseaon predictions

[sarahpalin]

first - it would be easier to respond if you didn't write a novel with each post... second - if you don't give source of where you steal quotes from it is considered plagirism...

 

How will the region look like this year-early predictions

[hsfbfan1]

Bump.

[INDYFBMAN]

I thought this thread is entitled "Indy: How does 2009 look ." So let"s talk Indy FB ! It is now late Feb. and Indy Nation has only recieved one brief note from the KING OF E-MAIL ( COACH EUBANKS. ) NO D - COORINATOR ! NO ASSISTANTS TO REPLACE THOSE RUN-OFF ! OFF SEASON PM WORKOUTS OUTSOURCED ! ! NO FACUTLY COACHES TO OPEN THE SCHOOL AND OVERSEE EARLY AM WORKOUTS ! ! ! It will soon be time for Spring Practice. WHERE IS THIS RUDDERLESS FOOTBALL PROGRAM HEADED ! ! !