2012 pre-season discussion, Transfers, Coaching changes and Rumors

[SAC]

Well I guess we need to start busting up the NCAA Tournament... All of these guys wrestling in the states from other countries. Maybe we can get the NWCA to change their name and they can take over the event and call it the International Collegiate Athletic Association Wrestling Championships.

[mocs2011]

Well I guess we need to start busting up the NCAA Tournament... All of these guys wrestling in the states from other countries. Maybe we can get the NWCA to change their name and they can take over the event and call it the International Collegiate Athletic Association Wrestling Championships.

 

I guess they don't need Division 2, Division 3, NAIA or NJCAA either, huh?

 

 

 

 

Rod Tidwell from the movie, Jerry Maguire "See, that’s the difference between us. You think we’re fighting, and I think we’re finally talking.â€

Edited September 6, 2012 by mocs2011

[shewantstheD]

The period 2000-2007 had Leen, Marable, Simpson, Keller and Cleveland all TN high school guys that placed D1 in the NCAA's. Also Raymond Dunning had a very strong NCAA Division 2 career. There were also other guys that wrestled NCAA D1 from this same period, such as Whitt Dunning, Manson, and Manley with a couple of these guys being NCAA D1 qualifiers. You could also throw in McCroskey, Johnson, Wright and other NCAA qualifiers towards the tail end of that period. This group was also very accomplished on the high school level, Fargo champion, Sr. National champ, Sr. Nationals finalist. Add Kyle James, another Fargo placer. Probably forgetting a few. There were some great TN wrestlers to watch during this period.

 

After 2007, just don't see the same number of TN high school wrestlers graduating with those credentials or potential. Croy may get there, Watson, Baker, Hooker and a few others? The State has not been turning out as many wrestlers that are having success at the next level or seem to have that potential. It could just be a slump, but it seems headed in the wrong direction. I agree that the TN AAU youth org is getting stronger and its the right place to start, but suggest other changes at the high school level as well.

 

From this year's class alone I can think of at least 9 guys who went D1, and a few who went D3, I think you need to wait a while before you start counting those kids out. Also, Marchetti is at west point, look for him this year, Manly at stanford, they're pretty good last time I checked, From The Bros, Bauke is at Air Force with a couple years left and the Johnson brothers are at the Naval Academy. No we haven't had a placer in a couple of years, but I would wager thats about to change here soon. I advise you either change your screenname to mocs2007, or accept the fact that its 2012 and be proud of your present representatives.

[Sommers]

Nice!! Hooker may end up the best since Leen & Phillip Simpson

[mocs2011]

From this year's class alone I can think of at least 9 guys who went D1, and a few who went D3, I think you need to wait a while before you start counting those kids out. Also, Marchetti is at west point, look for him this year, Manly at stanford, they're pretty good last time I checked, From The Bros, Bauke is at Air Force with a couple years left and the Johnson brothers are at the Naval Academy. No we haven't had a placer in a couple of years, but I would wager thats about to change here soon. I advise you either change your screenname to mocs2007, or accept the fact that its 2012 and be proud of your present representatives.

 

Talking to college coaches last year, most identified 2-3 being recruited for D1? I like and respect all of the recent wrestlers you named. They are outstanding young men and good wrestlers, but do not have the same credentials or expectations as the those from 2000-2007. They would tell you that themselves. None won Senior Nationals, was a Senior Nationals finalist, or won Fargo.

 

TN wrestling history - Marable won Fargo in Freestyle as a Cadet. At Mizzou, Marable placed 3rd in the NCAA's as a red-shirt sophomore and placed again as a junior. Leen won the Sr. Nationals in high school. Leen qualified for the NCAA tournament all four years at Cornell and was an All-American in 2007, 2008 and 2009. As a freshman he was the Ivy League Rookie of the Year. My memory is that Simpson made the finals of the Sr Nationals. In college, he was Army's all-time leader in victories with a 134-19 record, including three EIWA Championship titles. He qualifed for the NCAA tournament all four years, a three time NCAA all-american, including making the finals in 2005. These three were awesome wrestlers at the high school and college levels. Maybe we were just lucky as a State back then, but we have not had programs turning out prospects like this in the last 5 years.

 

Croy, a two time Fargo placer, seems like our best hope right now for having another NCAA D1 All American in the next couple of years. Anyone else? Watson will be a freshman and Hooker is at the Naval Prep school.

[cbg]

The talent in Tennessee like most states runs in cycles. Both Watson and Hooker have alot of talent from the class of 2012 and both could AA at some point during college if they continue to develop. The sleeper in the class may be Moseley who made the NHSCA Senior National finals and signed with Teague Moore and American University. IMO, the keys to becoming an AA is getting into the lineup early in ones career, having a strong academic background so you don't struggle in the classroom and kids that are mature enough that they understand how to stay away from trouble. Winning youth national tournaments (Tulsa, Super 32, Liberty, Reno, Philo, schoolboy nationals, etc...) is wonderful but if kids don't challange themself in the classroom like they do on the wrestling mat they will have few options in college wrestling.

[bradley08]

I guess they don't need Division 2, Division 3, NAIA or NJCAA either, huh?

 

 

 

 

Rod Tidwell from the movie, Jerry Maguire "See, that’s the difference between us. You think we’re fighting, and I think we’re finally talking.â€

 

I think he was poking fun at you and using the same logig you have been. After all it isnt fair some of these college teams have more $, better coaches, better facilities is it? Some have wrestlers from other countries, some recruit nationally and some are just bar;ey hanging on. Iisnt that what you are saying about the high school teams.

[mocs2011]

I think he was poking fun at you and using the same logig you have been. After all it isnt fair some of these college teams have more $, better coaches, better facilities is it? Some have wrestlers from other countries, some recruit nationally and some are just bar;ey hanging on. Iisnt that what you are saying about the high school teams.

 

I got it, but I was using the college example right back at Sac. He was pointing out there are guys from other countries wrestling. My answer--not many. A much closer tie between college and high school is that the big boys (the haves), whatever you want to call them are in D1 and the smaller schools, less resources and everything else are in different divisions. They also have different eligibility rules which is why I support, D1, D2 and the national prep league at the high school level. Also another great example for Sac, being a youth guy from the West (look at his earlier posts), is the TN AAU does not allow wrestlers from Cali, Jersey, Chicago, etc. to compete in the TN AAU state tournament. There was a big stink last year when some Kentucky wrestlers tried that spilled into this board and other discussions. What's wrong with allowing them in? Bottom line, you have to draw some lines or the City, State, Regional tournaments don't mean anything. Kind of tired of saying this, but the Prep schools should take it to the national level. It would help everyone long term, including themselves and even present a local Chatt option that could wrestle at the Walsh Ironman, Beast of the East, Dvorak, Cheesehead, and even west coast events. Today that option does not exist locally or anywhere in our state. It would level the playing field for D1 and D2 and provide another option, a national prep school option. Seems like a great answer, progressive idea, but there are always those that resist change right down until their company gets outsourced or just fails. These are the same type of people that fight the national duals at the NCAA level. There's another interesting topic.

 

 

 

 

 

Rod Tidwell from the movie, Jerry Maguire "See, that’s the difference between us. You think we’re fighting, and I think we’re finally talking.â€

Edited September 7, 2012 by mocs2011

[mocs2011]

The talent in Tennessee like most states runs in cycles. Both Watson and Hooker have alot of talent from the class of 2012 and both could AA at some point during college if they continue to develop. The sleeper in the class may be Moseley who made the NHSCA Senior National finals and signed with Teague Moore and American University. IMO, the keys to becoming an AA is getting into the lineup early in ones career, having a strong academic background so you don't struggle in the classroom and kids that are mature enough that they understand how to stay away from trouble. Winning youth national tournaments (Tulsa, Super 32, Liberty, Reno, Philo, schoolboy nationals, etc...) is wonderful but if kids don't challange themself in the classroom like they do on the wrestling mat they will have few options in college wrestling.

 

An intelligent post and I agree with most of what you say especially the class room part. Not sure about the state "cycles". Is the success of Brandon High School in Florida and the wrestlers they are putting out almost every year a cycle? If so, they're in for a deep ice age because the good cycle has been going for an awful long time. I think it is a very strong program with great coaches and support that gets out and challenges themselves at every level. A state is a compilation of those types of programs.

 

 

 

Rod Tidwell from the movie, Jerry Maguire "See, that’s the difference between us. You think we’re fighting, and I think we’re finally talkingâ€

Edited September 7, 2012 by mocs2011

[TNKO2]

There is a HUGE misconception that these wrestlers are being recruited and given "full rides". I know it doesnt matter what myself or anyone else says we cant change public perception. I will state the facts and you can believe them or not. Baylor does not recruit anyone. Period. All of the wrestlers that came from other programs left their previous programs and then contacted Baylor. Of all the kids listed in previous posts half of them are paying full tuition. The ones that arent paying full tuition are paying a substantial amount that their parents have to sacrifice in order to give their kids this opportunity. There isnt one single kid on a "free ride" or even close to it. Baylor isnt a win at all cost type of program no matter what you may think. There are many kids who will win the public school state this year and in up coming years that applied to Baylor and were not accepted or couldnt afford it even with financial aide. I will not name any kids but there are several current wrestlers from Chattanooga, Knoxville and Nashville that applied after being enrolled in other high schools that were not accpeted or their parents couldnt swing the costs. Look at the drop off from the feeder youth team and the middle school team and that should prove that Baylor isnt just taking kids who can wrestle. I get asked all the time by other coaches where my red raider club kids go and why they arent on the middle school team. The answer is they apply but dont get accepted or cant afford it. The coaches always look at me funny and ask why Baylor doesnt give them scholarships and I have to explain that due to popular belief it doesnt really work that way. These kids work their butts off not only in the wrestling room but in the class room and its belittling their efforts to just assume they win because they are at Baylor. They deal with a grueling wrestling schedule, 3 hours a day of homework and studying outside the classroom and a pretty intense practice schedule in additon to required public service and many other requirments. Their parents sacrifice a lot for their kids to go there and NOTHING is given to them. The only un-fair advantage Baylor has is their facilies, campus, educational opprotunities and dedication and quality of coaches. McCallie, Soddy, Cleveland, Father Ryan, Cbhs, all have advantages that attract wrestlers. Should Cleveland get rid of its awesome coaching staff and feeder program because its an advantage over other schools who arent as succesful? Should Soddy tell their passionate fans to not come to matches because its an advantage? Should McCallie tell Gordon Connell to forget half of his wrestling knowledge because he knows more than other coaches? Should Father Ryan discontinue their Nashville Catholic feeder program because its too good? All top notch programs have something that is advantageos and thats why kids want to go there. Good programs and schools dont have to recruit and its always been that way. Houston, Tate, Murphy and Brunner all came to Baylor because it was what they felt was best for them. Baylor didnt recruit them in any shape form or fashion. Money wasnt a deciding factor as most of these kids are paying full tuition or very subnstantial amounts. Those are the facts.

I DONT BELIEVE YOU...SORRY

[Sommers]

~If he can stay healthy, Jake Young has shown he's capable of being one of Tennessee's best.

 

~Beast of the east, Walsh ironman and super 32 are great measuring sticks, maybe more than Fargo.

 

~Brandon does a great job with scheduling and pool selection/protocol to assure their top ten stats.

[mustachiomenace]

No the problem is not from all public schools, its from schools like Father Ryan, Cleveland and Bradley that can't beat Baylor. Don't punish the students build your program as good as they have and beat them on the mat. Don't hate the program build your to beat them. Thanks from a public school dad.

 

All I have to say is look who won state last year in DII it was CBHS and Father Ryan. Imagine if Father Ryan and CBHS could recruit like Baylor, it wouldn’t even be a competition anymore. They would have all of the homegrown kids that they have now plus they would have all of the recruited kids like Baylor. And please don't tell me Baylor doesn’t recruit. Because it’s not like all these kids magically appear on their doorstep wanting looking for a good education and they just happen to wrestle. It’s like saying Ensworth doesn’t recruit in football. Ensworth just has 6’3 250lbs males magically showing up to their school looking for a good education and oh yea they happen to play football as well.

Edited September 8, 2012 by mustachiomenace