TSSAA please help with Officating

[mrbigster]

On ‎12‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 11:15 PM, DCDadCoachFan said:

Hey. not sure who you got tonight but we ended up with the guy you mention. Games weren't much contest but he had his moments of blowing the call. But you iwe us. we absorbed your pain  tonight. 

Thanks a lot. We lost to Central but wasn't due to the officiating.

[crazzyness]

I've been officiating for 7 season now. I'll give my observations. 

 

There is an official shortage. It hasn't hit as hard in TN (especially East TN) as it has Alot of places, but it's coming. Part of it is more are retiring than starting. And those few who are starting, even fewer are sticking with it. I could write an entire essay covering the reasons for this, but I'll have the main reason right here. Even since I started, it's been a trend across the board that:

A. Players are continually more disrespectful than ever, year after year.

B. Coaches are less knowledgeable about the game and the rules of the game and increasingly belligerent.

C. Parents/fans are completely out of control.

When I was in school 15ish years ago, you always had a couple old folks or an angry dad that hollered at and heckled officials, but there were only a handful. Coaches rarely ever raised their voices at officials. Sure they tried to work an official, but as a whole they were professional and respectful. And players NEVER talked backed or argued with officials. And on the off chance they did, they were yanked from the game by the coach. 

Officials in this day in age have an increasingly hostile work environment, and it gets worse every year. That is why you can't get anyone new to get in officiating and actually stick with it.  It's always the officials fault. If your kid loses, you tell them "it's OK, it's not your fault, the refs sucked." Doesn't have anything to do with the team shooting 21% from the floor or the fact that Junior was 3 of 10 from the free throw line. It's the refs' fault. 

The fans now a days are in general uninformed and entitled. They think they know the rules, but in reality a large percentage of them don't even have a clue. They think cause they paid $5 for the ticket, they can do whatever they want. Well try this. Go to the grocery store, and watch the bag boy. When he makes what you perceive as a mistake while bagging, yell at the top of your lungs "You're an idiot! Better keep your day job! and see what happens. You will certainly be asked to leave at least, and possibly even have the law called on you for disorderly conduct. Fans pay for that ticket and think they can leave cultural norms of how to conduct themselves like a civilized human being at the door. 

The reason fans are seeing a decline in the quality of officiating is because there are fewer quality officials, and the ones you have are the ones you have. And the reason there are fewer quality officials is due in large part to the fans. There's no way around that fact.

Edited December 12, 2017 by crazzyness

[OldSportsGuy]

12 minutes ago, crazzyness said:

I've been officiating for 7 season now. I'll give my observations. 

 

There is an official shortage. It hasn't hit as hard in TN (especially East TN) as it has Alot of places, but it's coming. Part of it is more are retiring than starting. And those few who are starting, even fewer are sticking with it. I could write an entire essay covering the reasons for this, but I'll have the main reason right here. Even since I started, it's been a trend across the board that:

A. Players are continually more disrespectful than ever, year after year.

B. Coaches are less knowledgeable about the game and the rules of the game and increasingly belligerent.

C. Parents/fans are completely out of control.

When I was in school 15ish years ago, you always had a couple old folks or an angry dad that hollered at and heckled officials, but there were only a handful. Coaches rarely ever raised their voices at officials. Sure they tried to work an official, but as a whole they were professional and respectful. And players NEVER talked backed or argued with officials. And on the off chance they did, they were yanked from the game by the coach. 

Officials in this day in age have an increasingly hostile work environment, and it gets worse every year. That is why you can't get anyone new to get in officiating and actually stick with it.  It's always the officials fault. If your kid loses, you tell them "it's OK, it's not your fault, the refs sucked." Doesn't have anything to do with the team shooting 21% from the floor or the fact that Junior was 3 of 10 from the free throw line. It's the refs' fault. 

The fans now a days are in general uninformed and entitled. They think they know the rules, but in reality a large percentage of them don't even have a clue. They think cause they paid $5 for the ticket, they can do whatever they want. Well try this. Go to the grocery store, and watch the bag boy. When he makes what you perceive as a mistake while bagging, yell at the top of your lungs "You're an idiot! Better keep your day job! and see what happens. You will certainly be asked to leave at least, and possibly even have the law called on you for disorderly conduct. Fans pay for that ticket and think they can leave cultural norms of how to conduct themselves like a civilized human being at the door. 

The reason fans are seeing a decline in the quality of officiating is because there are fewer quality officials, and the ones you have are the ones you have. And the reason there are fewer quality officials is due in large part to the fans. There's no way around that fact.

With respect the things you are talking about have pretty much always been there. I played high school and college hoops over 30 years ago and the spectators didn't know anything about the rules then either. LOL.

Officials must officiate the game and not have rabbit ears. The fans paid money to get in and a part of the game is fans yelling at officials. If the fans interfere with the game then have the game administrator remove the fan. If players are disrespectful then stick them and get a handle on it. If they continue then toss them. If officials would talk to the coaches then most will not be belligerent.  If the officials talk to the coach and they continue to the point of belligerent then stick them. Simple. If they keep on toss them. Tossing fans, players, and coaches is a rare event. Most of the time a conversation with a player or a coach solves the issue. A conversation with the game administrator solves the fan issue.

Officials seem unapproachable on the high school level. I don't understand this. make it about the kids, have conversations, and most of all have fun. If officials are not having fun then get out of it.

[TryNotToSuck]

3 hours ago, crazzyness said:

I've been officiating for 7 season now. I'll give my observations. 

 

There is an official shortage. It hasn't hit as hard in TN (especially East TN) as it has Alot of places, but it's coming. Part of it is more are retiring than starting. And those few who are starting, even fewer are sticking with it. I could write an entire essay covering the reasons for this, but I'll have the main reason right here. Even since I started, it's been a trend across the board that:

A. Players are continually more disrespectful than ever, year after year.

B. Coaches are less knowledgeable about the game and the rules of the game and increasingly belligerent.

C. Parents/fans are completely out of control.

When I was in school 15ish years ago, you always had a couple old folks or an angry dad that hollered at and heckled officials, but there were only a handful. Coaches rarely ever raised their voices at officials. Sure they tried to work an official, but as a whole they were professional and respectful. And players NEVER talked backed or argued with officials. And on the off chance they did, they were yanked from the game by the coach. 

Officials in this day in age have an increasingly hostile work environment, and it gets worse every year. That is why you can't get anyone new to get in officiating and actually stick with it.  It's always the officials fault. If your kid loses, you tell them "it's OK, it's not your fault, the refs sucked." Doesn't have anything to do with the team shooting 21% from the floor or the fact that Junior was 3 of 10 from the free throw line. It's the refs' fault. 

The fans now a days are in general uninformed and entitled. They think they know the rules, but in reality a large percentage of them don't even have a clue. They think cause they paid $5 for the ticket, they can do whatever they want. Well try this. Go to the grocery store, and watch the bag boy. When he makes what you perceive as a mistake while bagging, yell at the top of your lungs "You're an idiot! Better keep your day job! and see what happens. You will certainly be asked to leave at least, and possibly even have the law called on you for disorderly conduct. Fans pay for that ticket and think they can leave cultural norms of how to conduct themselves like a civilized human being at the door. 

The reason fans are seeing a decline in the quality of officiating is because there are fewer quality officials, and the ones you have are the ones you have. And the reason there are fewer quality officials is due in large part to the fans. There's no way around that fact.

Totally disagree. Officials leaving saying that the "coaches, fans, and players" are the reason why there are less officials than the past is simply bologna, BS, whatever. I'm not buying that, and I will never buy that. It's a SCAPEGOAT! simple. 

An officials job is to ignore the criticism from fans. It's their job, simple. If an official feels like he/she made the right call and gets booed, or criticize by coaches/players, why bother? The official felt like he/she made the right call.

To sit here and blame it all on players, coaches, and fans is garbage and asinine. Sorry, just not buying it.

[crazzyness]

5 hours ago, TryNotToSuck said:

Totally disagree. Officials leaving saying that the "coaches, fans, and players" are the reason why there are less officials than the past is simply bologna, BS, whatever. I'm not buying that, and I will never buy that. It's a SCAPEGOAT! simple. 

An officials job is to ignore the criticism from fans. It's their job, simple. If an official feels like he/she made the right call and gets booed, or criticize by coaches/players, why bother? The official felt like he/she made the right call.

To sit here and blame it all on players, coaches, and fans is garbage and asinine. Sorry, just not buying it.

You can buy it or not, I really don't give a hoot. But it's the truth. Take it or leave it. Fans, coaches, and players (as a group) or more hostile than I have ever seen in my 20 or so years I have been attending high school sports. And I'm not saying that is why we have bad officials. I'm saying that's why the stock of good officials is dwindling. Because a decent chunk of new officials don't stick with it because after a year or two, they decide the abuse and ridicule they have to put up with simply isn't worth it, for ANY amount of money.

[crazzyness]

9 hours ago, OldSportsGuy said:

 The fans paid money to get in and a part of the game is fans yelling at officials. 

THIS!!!

THIS mentality is part of the problem. They admission fans pay at the gate is to watch the game. There is no "yell at the official fee" added on in there. 

Now let me clarify, I'm not addressing the fans who just like to disagree with everything that goes against them being wrong and what not. To be honest, I get a giggle out of those folks because I have always enjoyed morons acting like morons. What I AM talking about are the folks who who get ugly, rude, and personal. And maybe y'all don't have that problem wherever you are, and if that's so, I envy you and all the nice people you hang around. But it is a problem here. Not so much during your prime-time Friday night 8PM boys game. But in lower level ball like JV and especially middle school and travel/summer ball, it is getting worse (typically it's a parent/parents of players.) And those are the levels of ball where you usually are lucky to have even a principle there to take care of a problem, let alone a game administrator or law enforcement. Those are also levels of ball where new officials start out. And it really just snowballs from there.

 

[crazzyness]

9 hours ago, OldSportsGuy said:

If officials are not having fun then get out of it.

Well they are, and in droves.

You might say officials shouldn't have "rabbit ears" or should grow thicker skin. And let me tell you, you might be right. But the fact of the matter is that before too long, there won't be enough officials to cover all the games. It's already happening in other parts of the country, especially in football. Baseball will be next.. It's already happening in Memphis. The TSSAA had so few officials registered in Memphis last month that they had to lower the already low requirements just to get enough bodies to cover their varsity schedule. Lord only knows what they are doing with B team and middle school games.

[OldSportsGuy]

9 hours ago, crazzyness said:

THIS!!!

THIS mentality is part of the problem. They admission fans pay at the gate is to watch the game. There is no "yell at the official fee" added on in there. 

Now let me clarify, I'm not addressing the fans who just like to disagree with everything that goes against them being wrong and what not. To be honest, I get a giggle out of those folks because I have always enjoyed morons acting like morons. What I AM talking about are the folks who who get ugly, rude, and personal. And maybe y'all don't have that problem wherever you are, and if that's so, I envy you and all the nice people you hang around. But it is a problem here. Not so much during your prime-time Friday night 8PM boys game. But in lower level ball like JV and especially middle school and travel/summer ball, it is getting worse (typically it's a parent/parents of players.) And those are the levels of ball where you usually are lucky to have even a principle there to take care of a problem, let alone a game administrator or law enforcement. Those are also levels of ball where new officials start out. And it really just snowballs from there.

 

I can't speak to travel/summer ball but all levels of school ball must have a game administrator. The fan does have a right to ride an official. It is part of the game. Comments I heard at the game I attended last night. "Ref you suck" "C'mon ref call it both ways", "What in the @%$#& are you looking at", etc... The officials continued to the call the game and ignored the nonsense. They were approachable by both players and coaches. And they seemed to enjoy themselves.

[OldSportsGuy]

9 hours ago, crazzyness said:

Well they are, and in droves.

You might say officials shouldn't have "rabbit ears" or should grow thicker skin. And let me tell you, you might be right. But the fact of the matter is that before too long, there won't be enough officials to cover all the games. It's already happening in other parts of the country, especially in football. Baseball will be next.. It's already happening in Memphis. The TSSAA had so few officials registered in Memphis last month that they had to lower the already low requirements just to get enough bodies to cover their varsity schedule. Lord only knows what they are doing with B team and middle school games.

Lets get serious... There are no requirements to be an official. All you have to do is pass an open book test and pay your association fee. Unless there is something I am not aware of...??? How did they lower the requirements?

[OrangeGuru]

22 hours ago, crazzyness said:

I've been officiating for 7 season now. I'll give my observations. 

 

There is an official shortage. It hasn't hit as hard in TN (especially East TN) as it has Alot of places, but it's coming. Part of it is more are retiring than starting. And those few who are starting, even fewer are sticking with it. I could write an entire essay covering the reasons for this, but I'll have the main reason right here. Even since I started, it's been a trend across the board that:

A. Players are continually more disrespectful than ever, year after year.

B. Coaches are less knowledgeable about the game and the rules of the game and increasingly belligerent.

C. Parents/fans are completely out of control.

When I was in school 15ish years ago, you always had a couple old folks or an angry dad that hollered at and heckled officials, but there were only a handful. Coaches rarely ever raised their voices at officials. Sure they tried to work an official, but as a whole they were professional and respectful. And players NEVER talked backed or argued with officials. And on the off chance they did, they were yanked from the game by the coach. 

Officials in this day in age have an increasingly hostile work environment, and it gets worse every year. That is why you can't get anyone new to get in officiating and actually stick with it.  It's always the officials fault. If your kid loses, you tell them "it's OK, it's not your fault, the refs sucked." Doesn't have anything to do with the team shooting 21% from the floor or the fact that Junior was 3 of 10 from the free throw line. It's the refs' fault. 

The fans now a days are in general uninformed and entitled. They think they know the rules, but in reality a large percentage of them don't even have a clue. They think cause they paid $5 for the ticket, they can do whatever they want. Well try this. Go to the grocery store, and watch the bag boy. When he makes what you perceive as a mistake while bagging, yell at the top of your lungs "You're an idiot! Better keep your day job! and see what happens. You will certainly be asked to leave at least, and possibly even have the law called on you for disorderly conduct. Fans pay for that ticket and think they can leave cultural norms of how to conduct themselves like a civilized human being at the door. 

The reason fans are seeing a decline in the quality of officiating is because there are fewer quality officials, and the ones you have are the ones you have. And the reason there are fewer quality officials is due in large part to the fans. There's no way around that fact.

I am not buying it either. Not sure what school you attended 15 years ago but the crowd has not changed. Coaches, players, parents and spectators are not asking for perfection here. Just consistency. Its just not happening. You cant blame the Coaches, players, parents and spectators for not being consistent because they are. The common thing here is bad officiating. Not even going to call out one guy I saw last night by name. Was at the Henry County visit to Dyer County. There was one guy that blew his whistle 70 % of the time. Didn't matter where he was on the floor. How bad his position on floor. Once he wasn't even looking at the play in front but turned around arguing mouthing with a coach who wasn't even looking at him but watching his players. He was not just bad for the home team but for both teams. His eye sight was so bad he almost walked right into a cheer leader flipping down the floor twice and was looking right at them. One of other guys where so lazy he often would not pass the mid court line even on free throws. But hey. That's the crowds fault right ? Just not buying your argument. Officials need to step their game up.

[Bkbfan4ever]

 

Totally disagree. Officials leaving saying that the "coaches, fans, and players" are the reason why there are less officials than the past is simply bologna, BS, whatever. I'm not buying that, and I will never buy that. It's a SCAPEGOAT! simple. 

An officials job is to ignore the criticism from fans. It's their job, simple. If an official feels like he/she made the right call and gets booed, or criticize by coaches/players, why bother? The official felt like he/she made the right call.

To sit here and blame it all on players, coaches, and fans is garbage and asinine. Sorry, just not buying it.

16 hours ago, crazzyness said:

You can buy it or not, I really don't give a hoot. But it's the truth. Take it or leave it. Fans, coaches, and players (as a group) or more hostile than I have ever seen in my 20 or so years I have been attending high school sports. And I'm not saying that is why we have bad officials. I'm saying that's why the stock of good officials is dwindling. Because a decent chunk of new officials don't stick with it because after a year or two, they decide the abuse and ridicule they have to put up with simply isn't worth it, for ANY amount of money.

"Get paid to ignore the criticism.  It's their job, simple."  Who is this guy? 

How many of you would want to do a job where you get yelled at EVERY TIME you blow your whistle.

Fact is that every time an official makes a call, wrong or right, half the gym is happy and the other is not,  one coach is happy the other mad, that is just the way it is.   That will never change.   So how many of you want to do that job?  Not me.  Why would anybody?

Don't give me this mess about lowering standards because it is not like they had a choice.  You want games cancelled?  Kids not getting to play?  Number of games decreased?  Don't think so.  They don't have enough officials so they had to get them from somewhere so standards may have been lowered.  There are bad officials and good officials, just like  there are good and bad wherever you work.  

If you want to make things better, get a whistle and get involved.  More $ is not the answer, that will only hurt schools and attendance-can't tell me most people are not upset paying $6 to go to a game-because they have to pay those officials.  There is no easy answer but getting more people involved in the solution is a start.

I think fans, parents, coaches and officials have forgotten what they are there for - THE KIDS

[dmm88]

It's no flow to these games. The best game I watched recently had 15 fouls the ENTIRE game. It was up and down and it was so fun to watch. I know behind the scenes these refs have to call the game in favor of the home team/the administration buddies they are tight with. Stopping the game to see free throws every 2-3 minutes is not good basketball.