Cleveland High School Recruiting

[FR615]

1 hour ago, GrassmanCLEV said:

Agree, but he isn't even in this thread. This is a new one started to complain about Cleveland. Regardless, I'm talking about more than just this forum. The infighting in TN is hamstringing everyone's progress. I noticed it from the time we arrived. This forum over the last couple of days is just a particularly bad example of the bigger problem.

While I agree with what you are saying one has to wonder where and how this individual got text messages from Joey Knox’s phone and got approval to post them. 

[coachParker]

10 minutes ago, Ummmno said:

Members of the Cleveland high coahcing staff have been on this forum before telling people the opposite of what you just said. 

 

They dont get extra funding, they dont get transfers in, the ONLY reason they win more than the rest is simply becuase they outwork everybody. These are their words. 

Then you should maybe follow suit. Get over yourself, make the program you work with successful with what God can supply you, and don't bash other programs. That's what "outworking" truly is about. Also, while we're at it.. don't act like you care about Tennessee wrestling if you're bashing the best team in the state that holds a national ranking. 

This is coming from a coach who only assists a high school team with one state medalist ever.. and heads the middle school program feeding. No help from community, schools, or county. It's the hard work we put in to get where we are that we're proud of.. or the "outworking" we try to achieve. Doing this knowing that funding from the future success of our kids will come.. support from the community in building a proper culture of our sport will come.. and our county can't back down from giving what has been EARNED not given.. will come. Which to my knowledge is where Cleveland stands on their current success is following a similar model. 

[cowcatcherII]

5 minutes ago, Ummmno said:

Members of the Cleveland high coahcing staff have been on this forum before telling people the opposite of what you just said. 

 

They dont get extra funding, they dont get transfers in, the ONLY reason they win more than the rest is simply becuase they outwork everybody. These are their words. 

This is so true, and I think the fact that their coaches have felt the need to post about it in the past is very telling.. Can you imagine if some Baylor person were firing off defamation against one of the Cleveland coaches the way the Cleveland guy on the other thread has been talking about Baylor's coach?? 

I also think it's so funny that Cleveland fans and coaches always love to say that Alan Jones isn't the main reason for their success and that he gives Bradley the same funding every year... it's laughable. Do these same people not realize that Alan's son wrestled for and graduated from Cleveland around the same time the money really started pouring in? You cannot tell me that he provides Cleveland's biggest rival with the same financial resources. It would be impossible for Alan not to be biased and you can't blame him for that. If I were a millionaire and my son graduated from Alabama, it would be crazy to think I would want to give as much money to Auburn as I give to Alabama. It's his hard earned money and he can do what he wants with it. Let's just not try to undermine his impact. 

All that to say, I haven't ever read where anyone on this board tries to say Cleveland doesn't work hard, or their coaches don't put in a lot of work, and their kids club isn't elite. All of that is true and most people on this board acknowledge that. I think it's just that the Cleveland people try to down play Alan's impact. If Alan Jones doesn't exist, the Cleveland Dynasty of the past 10-15 years doesn't exist. That is a fact. He has made everything that has transpired possible. 

If you disagree with that, I would challenge you to answer this... why wasn't Cleveland consistently on top prior to Alan's financial involvement? Cleveland was a very respectable team under Coach Miller, but they were never elite prior to Alan's financial backing.

[FR615]

1 minute ago, coachParker said:

Then you should maybe follow suit. Get over yourself, make the program you work with successful with what God can supply you, and don't bash other programs. That's what "outworking" truly is about. Also, while we're at it.. don't act like you care about Tennessee wrestling if you're bashing the best team in the state that holds a national ranking. 

This is coming from a coach who only assists a high school team with one state medalist ever.. and heads the middle school program feeding. No help from community, schools, or county. It's the hard work we put in to get where we are that we're proud of.. or the "outworking" we try to achieve. Doing this knowing that funding from the future success of our kids will come.. support from the community in building a proper culture of our sport will come.. and our county can't back down from giving what has been EARNED not given.. will come. Which to my knowledge is where Cleveland stands on their current success is following a similar model. 

Why are they releasing text messages to post on here that tried to slander another school?  Just curious 

[FR615]

Just now, cowcatcherII said:

This is so true, and I think the fact that their coaches have felt the need to post about it in the past is very telling.. Can you imagine if some Baylor person were firing off defamation against one of the Cleveland coaches the way the Cleveland guy on the other thread has been talking about Baylor's coach?? 

I also think it's so funny that Cleveland fans and coaches always love to say that Alan Jones isn't the main reason for their success and that he gives Bradley the same funding every year... it's laughable. Do these same people not realize that Alan's son wrestled for and graduated from Cleveland around the same time the money really started pouring in? You cannot tell me that he provides Cleveland's biggest rival with the same financial resources. It would be impossible for Alan not to be biased and you can't blame him for that. If I were a millionaire and my son graduated from Alabama, it would be crazy to think I would want to give as much money to Auburn as I give to Alabama. It's his hard earned money and he can do what he wants with it. Let's just not try to undermine his impact. 

All that to say, I haven't ever read where anyone on this board tries to say Cleveland doesn't work hard, or their coaches don't put in a lot of work, and their kids club isn't elite. All of that is true and most people on this board acknowledge that. I think it's just that the Cleveland people try to down play Alan's impact. If Alan Jones doesn't exist, the Cleveland Dynasty of the past 10-15 years doesn't exist. That is a fact. He has made everything that has transpired possible. 

If you disagree with that, I would challenge you to answer this... why wasn't Cleveland consistently on top prior to Alan's financial involvement? Cleveland was a very respectable team under Coach Miller, but they were never elite prior to Alan's financial backing.

Exactly!

[Ummmno]

24 minutes ago, coachParker said:

Then you should maybe follow suit. Get over yourself, make the program you work with successful with what God can supply you, and don't bash other programs. That's what "outworking" truly is about. Also, while we're at it.. don't act like you care about Tennessee wrestling if you're bashing the best team in the state that holds a national ranking. 

This is coming from a coach who only assists a high school team with one state medalist ever.. and heads the middle school program feeding. No help from community, schools, or county. It's the hard work we put in to get where we are that we're proud of.. or the "outworking" we try to achieve. Doing this knowing that funding from the future success of our kids will come.. support from the community in building a proper culture of our sport will come.. and our county can't back down from giving what has been EARNED not given.. will come. Which to my knowledge is where Cleveland stands on their current success is following a similar model. 

So, by your own acknowledgement, them having large donors and transfers IS "outworking" everybody? Come on now...

 

We say it every year. TIme and time again. It'd go a long way if they just admitted they got more money than any other program and also benefited with transfers wanting to go to their school. Nobody would fault them. Who would turn down that money? Who would tell kids no sorry, we dont want you here? Nobody. 

 

BUT they dont. They claim the reason they're better is because they work harder. Come on. Be for real. 

[cowcatcherII]

9 minutes ago, Ummmno said:

So, by your own acknowledgement, them having large donors and transfers IS "outworking" everybody? Come on now...

 

We say it every year. TIme and time again. It'd go a long way if they just admitted they got more money than any other program and also benefited with transfers wanting to go to their school. Nobody would fault them. Who would turn down that money? Who would tell kids no sorry, we dont want you here? Nobody. 

 

BUT they dont. They claim the reason they're better is because they work harder. Come on. Be for real. 

I think that's the main difference with how people view Cleveland v. Baylor or even McCallie for that matter. 

Baylor and McCallie fans aren't trying to tell anyone they're great because they work harder than everyone. Unless I have missed something I haven't seen any Baylor or McCallie folks try to tell you they don't have built in advantages being a boarding school and having the ability to pluck talent from other schools every year. 

I would be interested to hear @durdon 's , @oceansize42 's, and @cbg's thoughts on all this.

Edited January 22 by cowcatcherII

[Humorist]

37 minutes ago, cowcatcherII said:

This is so true, and I think the fact that their coaches have felt the need to post about it in the past is very telling.. Can you imagine if some Baylor person were firing off defamation against one of the Cleveland coaches the way the Cleveland guy on the other thread has been talking about Baylor's coach?? 

I also think it's so funny that Cleveland fans and coaches always love to say that Alan Jones isn't the main reason for their success and that he gives Bradley the same funding every year... it's laughable. Do these same people not realize that Alan's son wrestled for and graduated from Cleveland around the same time the money really started pouring in? You cannot tell me that he provides Cleveland's biggest rival with the same financial resources. It would be impossible for Alan not to be biased and you can't blame him for that. If I were a millionaire and my son graduated from Alabama, it would be crazy to think I would want to give as much money to Auburn as I give to Alabama. It's his hard earned money and he can do what he wants with it. Let's just not try to undermine his impact. 

All that to say, I haven't ever read where anyone on this board tries to say Cleveland doesn't work hard, or their coaches don't put in a lot of work, and their kids club isn't elite. All of that is true and most people on this board acknowledge that. I think it's just that the Cleveland people try to down play Alan's impact. If Alan Jones doesn't exist, the Cleveland Dynasty of the past 10-15 years doesn't exist. That is a fact. He has made everything that has transpired possible. 

If you disagree with that, I would challenge you to answer this... why wasn't Cleveland consistently on top prior to Alan's financial involvement? Cleveland was a very respectable team under Coach Miller, but they were never elite prior to Alan's financial backing.

I can somewhat answer all of this. Considering I was a part of the coaching staff just prior to Alan pumping money into the program. First off, Alan has never really had to work hard for his money. He was born with the silver spoon in his mouth. He just elevated his game. But he made his money by loan sharking by taking from the poor. Let’s not mention that Coach Miller’s last year Alan took out a huge ad in Win Magazine. Right dead center of it with the Jones Center. Basically a “wanted” ad for coaches. I was on the high school staff at the time  and Alan was wanting me to go back to the middle school to straighten it back out and get the numbers up. We had 100 kids in the middle school program.  I respectfully declined. So I knew my time was limited. So I used my time at the State Tournament to shop myself around. And that was at the time Alan offered a briefcase of money to Steve Logsdon. I don’t know the exact amount but from what I have been told by the mentioned above is was a very generous amount. So Cleveland was on the cusp of getting Logsdon as the coach. That was the same year that Jones oldest son Will was a senior at Cleveland. We as coaches weren’t allowed to basically speak to the kid. That’s when Alan brought in Matt Pitts to coach him. Even went as far as allowing Pitts to coach Will at State. And also Alan gave Will a Ferrari for pinning a kid from Notre Dame in the Bradley Invitational. 
Alans money started trickling in at the end of that season. But Josh’s vision for Higher Calling first came from Heath Eslinger. Josh has done a tremendous job no doubt. But there were other coaches before these guys. And in the previous thread I have stated that what kick started their run was my last crew of Cleveland Youth Kids Club. Ethan West, Oliver’s, Hayden Hamilton. As well as current Stampede Coach Drake Haney. My staff was underrated and we didn’t want the clout. Just some Cleveland guys that wanted to see the drought end against Bradley. 
Ive been on both sides of the spectrum. I’ve been at my Alma Mater Cleveland and I I’ve been at Bradley. Not having to worry about money at times at Cleveland. To worrying if we were going to be able to travel to State Duals as a Bradley Assistant. That was the year that Jones screwed Bradley out of money. And believe me Ben Smith busted his tail to get funds for that program. Alan said he would match dollar for dollar. But when invoices were presented Alan backpedaled. And basically called us Liars. But Jones has been an integral part of not just Cleveland but UT Chattanooga as well. How do you think UTC got Brands? Bono? Or even Seay? All of Alan’s doing. I get the man loves wrestling. But I felt like when I needed something from him I was selling my soul to the devil. 

[oceansize42]

1 hour ago, cowcatcherII said:

I think that's the main difference with how people view Cleveland v. Baylor or even McCallie for that matter. 

Baylor and McCallie fans aren't trying to tell anyone they're great because they work harder than everyone. Unless I have missed something I haven't seen any Baylor or McCallie folks try to tell you they don't have built in advantages being a boarding school and having the ability to pluck talent from other schools every year. 

I would be interested to hear @durdon 's , @oceansize42 's, and @cbg's thoughts on all this.

I'll give some of my background which will probably explain my point-of-view.

My nephew attends McCallie.  What they have as a school have is phenomenal (I'm sure Baylor is awesome too).  I'm impressed, however, I think I'm too pragmatic for most to take seriously with regards to sports and high school.  Not being a great athlete myself and not being a rah rah guy I view sports as a means to an end.  My kids had fun, truly they did.  I would give most anything to relive the vast majority of it. They went to a county school and a decidedly mediocre one at that.  Could they have had more fun at a private school like McCallie? No. My kids most likely wouldn't have started.  Don't get me wrong they were great in my eyes but facts is facts.  My son was a solid team wrestler, trained hard, and worked hard. Understood his role.  My daughter was a solid athlete, same goes for her. Trained hard, worked hard.  I then think what more could they have gotten out of it if they had went further or been on a team that was super good? The answer is nothing.  They made friends, discovered the value of work, had some realizations about themselves, and then that was it. 

I can imagine the immense sense of satisfaction that must come with winning and competing at those big tournaments and meaningful duals, but that is all I can do.  We weren't there. I think its important for all to remember those are what they are, moments.  Nobody cares within a few short years other than the coaches who work their tail off to make sure each new group is prepared to repeat those same feats.  More power to them, I love their dedication.

With my background out of the way, I think kids should go where they want without restriction. I think schools should be able to recruit, both public and private. Why?  Because there is only so many really good kids, particularly in wrestling, to go around.  The vast vast majority of parents don't care because we are having fun watching our kids.  Does it suck to get whooped by a far superior team who has either worked harder than you or simply recruited? Yes, lol, yes it does. Been there, but I understood the bigger picture.  My kid's teams, and therefore me as well, have received some whoopings.  So to the point @cowcatcherII made about McCallie not talking there is definitely some truth.  However, Cleveland can't control dumb parents, they just can't (and you all are dumb, really really dumb).  I've got no problem with a program tooting it's own horn either.  Having money (whatever that means) is great but you still have to practice hard and practice right. They obviously do that. Kudos.

I've said this before but everyone really should understand this. Most parents don't sit around discussing Cleveland, McCallie, and Baylor.  We just don't. I promise you this topic never came up between parents. We went to the duals and for the most part loved being there win or lose. There is a bubble that some are in where all this matters, like really matters. It doesn't matter.  Parents, with any brains, know what's up when you wrestle a handful of these power house public/private schools.  I get that it is very easy to get caught up in "winning", I get it, but man it's just moments in time. For the current mediocre wrestlers out there who might read this, remember, where you went to school and how good a wrestler you were (or weren't) means nothing in life, absolutely nothing.  If you personally worked hard and were a student of the game then you received everything you ever needed.

 

 

Edited January 22 by oceansize42

[CorderosDad]

17 minutes ago, oceansize42 said:

I'll give some of my background which will probably explain my point-of-view.

My nephew attends McCallie.  What they have as a school have is phenomenal (I'm sure Baylor is awesome too).  I'm impressed, however, I think I'm too pragmatic for most to take seriously with regards to sports and high school.  Not being a great athlete myself and not being a rah rah guy I view sports as a means to an end.  My kids had fun, truly they did.  I would give most anything to relive the vast majority of it. They went to a county school and a decidedly mediocre one at that.  Could they have had more fun at a private school like McCallie? No. My kids most likely wouldn't have started.  Don't get me wrong they were great in my eyes but facts is facts.  My son was a solid team wrestler, trained hard, and worked hard. Understood his role.  My daughter was a solid athlete, same goes for her. Trained hard, worked hard.  I then think what more could they have gotten out of it if they had went further or been on a team that was super good? The answer is nothing.  They made friends, discovered the value of work, had some realizations about themselves, and then that was it. 

I can imagine the immense sense of satisfaction that must come with winning and competing at those big tournaments and meaningful duals, but that is all I can do.  We weren't there. I think its important for all to remember those are what they are, moments.  Nobody cares within a few short years other than the coaches who work their tail off to make sure each new group is prepared to repeat those same feats.  More power to them, I love their dedication.

With my background out of the way, I think kids should go where they want without restriction. I think schools should be able to recruit, both public and private. Why?  Because there is only so many really good kids, particularly in wrestling, to go around.  The vast vast majority of parents don't care because we are having fun watching our kids.  Does it suck to get whooped by a far superior team who has either worked harder than you or simply recruited? Yes, lol, yes it does. Been there, but I understood the bigger picture.  My kid's teams, and therefore me as well, have received some whoopings.  So to the point @cowcatcherII made about McCallie not talking there is definitely some truth.  However, Cleveland can't control dumb parents, they just can't (and you all are dumb, really really dumb).  I've got no problem with a program tooting it's own horn either.  Having money (whatever that means) is great but you still have to practice hard and practice right. They obviously do that. Kudos.

I've said this before but everyone really should understand this. Most parents don't sit around discussing Cleveland, McCallie, and Baylor.  We just don't. I promise you this topic never came up between parents. We went to the duals and for the most part loved being there win or lose. There is a bubble that some are in where all this matters, like really matters. It doesn't matter.  Parents, with any brains, know what's up when you wrestle a handful of these power house public/private schools.  I get that it is very easy to get caught up in "winning", I get it, but man it's just moments in time. For the current mediocre wrestlers out there who might read this, remember, where you went to school and how good a wrestler you were (or weren't) means nothing in life, absolutely nothing.  If you personally worked hard and were a student of the game then you received everything you ever needed.

 

 

One of the best responses I have ever seen on this platform!!!

[cobrakid8]

2 hours ago, RMC said:

cobrakid8......you might want to look where Camden County High School is in Georgia     

I know where they are, got family down on base that way as well as down the road in Jax! 

[cobrakid8]

3 hours ago, GrassmanCLEV said:

You're taking the "outwork everyone" thing too personally. It's a club motto - a battle cry for the kids to give their best. It's a point of pride for the kids that do put in their best effort to have those words on their shirt. I don't think the coaches or most of the parents truly believe that Cleveland's work ethic is unmatched anywhere in the world. I can tell you I've been in rooms that consistently go harder than Cleveland, but there's more to success than just going hard every day.

When I was in VA Beach last year, wearing my "outwork everyone" shirt, I ran into another guy from a different state that had the same thing on his shirt. Should I have punched him in the face and ripped the shirt off his back? Doesn't he know that WE outwork everyone? No. We introduced ourselves, complimented the shirts, and wished each other luck. Because we're not idiots.

I'm not going to post anymore about this because I have more important things to do. I wish all your clubs luck and genuinely hope we lose the state title soon. Nothing feeds the beast like the hunger of 2nd place.

As ummmno alluded to, there have been members of that staff come on here to tell us to quit whining because they are only ahead because they outwork everyone, I had a discussion last year about this very thing and a person on staff there jumped on to say it was because of working harder than everyone else being the reason they were on top!
 

  There are many people privy through the years on what Jones has done for that program and humorist isn’t lying on what all has happened through the years in that county itself.