Enrollment Numbers

[SurfingPatriot786]

When does TSSAA meet about this? I know it does not go into affect until 2023 - 2024 school year, but when does the meeting actually happen? December? Spring? Just curious when we would actually get an idea of how things are going to be in place for the next enrollment period.

[tradertwo]

14 hours ago, theawesomebro said:

I do not disagree with anything you are saying and I understand the advantages private schools have.  I have kids in private school.  

I have a problem with this...

"Private schools can keep to themselfs.  They showed they can't play by the rules, and no one wants to play them."

that is my beef.  sorry that was not clear.  my point ONCE AGAIN is that private schools dont necessarily break the rules more than public.  

I also think the 2 best games I saw last year were CPA vs Oakland and Lipscomb vs Oakland.  I think it is unfortunate to not find ways to have more great matchups like that.  

Then you and I don't disagree on anything at all. Before the split, we were in a district (15A) with Trinity Christian Academy, and I couldn't have asked for a more upstanding administration and fanbase...I never had the impression that ANY rules were broken by them, yet they are located within a metro area comprised of 75,000+ people from which to select their enrollment. I'll go one step beyond and say that TCA was at a distinct disadvantage after the split, because they had not actively "recruited" for students and there were two other small privates in the area who for years had been, but the fact still remains that the rules were made equal for each entity by the separation of public and private, and the mission of TSSAA is to ensure "a level playing field". I think the ruling was based on the opportunity to take advantage, rather than someone breaking the rules (plenty were) for an advantage. before you take umbrage with my reference that some were breaking (bending) rules, one of the other privates in the area chose to go private for a cycle (able to recruit and offer financial aid), then chose to go back public the next cycle yet played with the same students acquired while in DII. No rules officially broken, but not exactly within the spirit of having separate divisions either...wouldn't you agree? 

[cbg]

A now retired MNPS educator told me that when the public/private split took place in the 90’s it was a bad idea!  When I ask why the split was a bad idea he informed me that the rich (private schools) would only get richer and the distance between the two in both academics and athletics would get even wider.  When having lunch with him back in February I reminded him of our conversation and he informed me that the academic gap was much worse than he ever expected.  After retiring this man had been called back to teach an AP Biology and AP Chemistry class at one of the MNPS high schools.  To set the stage for my next question you must understand that he has a son that has been a long time educator at a top prep school in Tennessee.  I ask him how many of the kids in the AP Biology and AP Chemistry class could go to the prep school where his son was teaching and do well.  His answer was that he had 13 students in one of the classes and 12 students in the other class he was teaching and he had only 1 student that would do well.  He had 1 additional student that was capable of doing the work but they didn’t have the mental toughness to do 3 hours of homework day in and day out.  As a graduate of MNPS I ask the question, as a society when and why did we decide that it was ok to fail our public school students and their families by not demanding that every student receive a great academic education?  

Edited June 29, 2022 by cbg

[theawesomebro]

24 minutes ago, tradertwo said:

Then you and I don't disagree on anything at all. Before the split, we were in a district (15A) with Trinity Christian Academy, and I couldn't have asked for a more upstanding administration and fanbase...I never had the impression that ANY rules were broken by them, yet they are located within a metro area comprised of 75,000+ people from which to select their enrollment. I'll go one step beyond and say that TCA was at a distinct disadvantage after the split, because they had not actively "recruited" for students and there were two other small privates in the area who for years had been, but the fact still remains that the rules were made equal for each entity by the separation of public and private, and the mission of TSSAA is to ensure "a level playing field". I think the ruling was based on the opportunity to take advantage, rather than someone breaking the rules (plenty were) for an advantage. before you take umbrage with my reference that some were breaking (bending) rules, one of the other privates in the area chose to go private for a cycle (able to recruit and offer financial aid), then chose to go back public the next cycle yet played with the same students acquired while in DII. No rules officially broken, but not exactly within the spirit of having separate divisions either...wouldn't you agree? 

100% on the same page with you on this but maybe we disagree on the team we root for  : ) 

following the rules isn't always exactly fair either way.  I think the open zoning at some public schools gives them a distinct advantage against schools that don't have it.  

I appreciate your thoughtful posts in any case.

[tradertwo]

26 minutes ago, theawesomebro said:

100% on the same page with you on this but maybe we disagree on the team we root for  : ) 

following the rules isn't always exactly fair either way.  I think the open zoning at some public schools gives them a distinct advantage against schools that don't have it.  

I appreciate your thoughtful posts in any case.

Just a side note...all public schools are completely "open zone" unless restricted by their own board of directors. Whatever restrictions that apply to any public school is of their own choosing, and not of state or federal policy.

[Swipes]

2 hours ago, theawesomebro said:

100% on the same page with you on this but maybe we disagree on the team we root for  : ) 

following the rules isn't always exactly fair either way.  I think the open zoning at some public schools gives them a distinct advantage against schools that don't have it.  

I appreciate your thoughtful posts in any case.

Then over 95% of public schools have the same advantage then so not really an advantage at all. There isn’t just some schools that are open zoned it’s the vast majority that are.  A lot of people don’t know what “open zoning” is until you look at how the TSSAA classifies it.  Any school board that has a transfer policy on file is classified as open zoning. 

[DKerley]

We could go to 4 Classifications like we currently have in basketball and baseball.  I think there is 16 Districts and 8 Regions per classification.  Anyhow, District 1 Champion could play District 2 Champion for the Region 1 Championship.  Both teams would automatically get a bid to the TSSAA playoffs.  District 1 #2 team would play District 2 #3 team and District 1 #3 team could play District 2 #2 team and the two winning teams would make the TSSAA playoffs for that Region 1.  Other games would also be played for example, District 1 #4 team would play District 2 #4 team, #5 vs #5, etc.  This would make every team across the state play an 11th game and TSSAA could get 1/2 of the gate and the 2 teams split the rest.  We could do away with the bye week and the season would still be the same in length.  In the end all playoff teams would deserve to be in the playoffs.  TSSAA would end up making more money than they would under the current 6 classification system.

I also think that TSSAA should have a multiplier effect for Private schools if we combine Public and Private schools.  I also think that TSSAA should have a multiplier effect for county's who have open enrollment and allow students to attend any school of their choice within they system. 

[Swipes]

4 minutes ago, DKerley said:

We could go to 4 Classifications like we currently have in basketball and baseball.  I think there is 16 Districts and 8 Regions per classification.  Anyhow, District 1 Champion could play District 2 Champion for the Region 1 Championship.  Both teams would automatically get a bid to the TSSAA playoffs.  District 1 #2 team would play District 2 #3 team and District 1 #3 team could play District 2 #2 team and the two winning teams would make the TSSAA playoffs for that Region 1.  Other games would also be played for example, District 1 #4 team would play District 2 #4 team, #5 vs #5, etc.  This would make every team across the state play an 11th game and TSSAA could get 1/2 of the gate and the 2 teams split the rest.  We could do away with the bye week and the season would still be the same in length.  In the end all playoff teams would deserve to be in the playoffs.  TSSAA would end up making more money than they would under the current 6 classification system.

I also think that TSSAA should have a multiplier effect for Private schools if we combine Public and Private schools.  I also think that TSSAA should have a multiplier effect for county's who have open enrollment and allow students to attend any school of their choice within they system. 

It would have to be a play in game as part of the TSSAA playoffs if you start doing it that way.  10 games is regular season and anything over that is post season.  I highly doubt they would do that since you're going to have 2 #1 seeds play each other and take a chance of beating each other up way earlier than if they met later in the playoffs and no benefit for being the #1 seed in any district.  They aren't going away with a bye week either because it allows teams to heal a bit and not play 15 weeks straight or 16 in your new scenario.

 

Combining Publics and Privates again will never happen because it's a complete unfair advantage for one set of school to be able to actively recruit and the others not even if you gave them a multiplier.  So you want the TSSAA to give a multiplier to over 95% of the public schools that are part of the TSSAA?  What would be the point besides a headache

[DKerley]

The only reason I mentioned an 11th game or play in game is so that TSSAA could make more money.  I am pretty sure that is why we have 6 classifications for Public and 2 more classifications for Private schools.  Yes, it is watered down.

Most counties are Open Enrollment- example Blount County- best football players could go play for Alcoa or Maryville leaving other schools within the county with less talent so yes I believe it is an unfair advantage, same advantage private schools have when they recruit several districts.

[Swipes]

4 minutes ago, DKerley said:

The only reason I mentioned an 11th game or play in game is so that TSSAA could make more money.  I am pretty sure that is why we have 6 classifications for Public and 2 more classifications for Private schools.  Yes, it is watered down.

Most counties are Open Enrollment- example Blount County- best football players could go play for Alcoa or Maryville leaving other schools within the county with less talent so yes I believe it is an unfair advantage, same advantage private schools have when they recruit several districts.

The problem is like I stated before yes TSSAA wants money but do you really believe the  schools are going to vote for their district champs playing each other in week 11 instead of maybe the Quarter finals?  Not smart if you are a coach for your kids.

 

Once again if most are open zone whats the point of a multiplier?  The same Multiplier would county for Heritage, Williams Blount, Maryville, and Alcoa since they are in the same county but three different school systems.  It's not like you can live zoned for Heritage now and just go to Maryville (They are at capacity now) and why getting a house in the City is hard to come by).  Same advantage?  If you truly believe that then you have no clue the difference between public and Privates.  A coach from Maryville can't drive to Nashville and recruit a player the same way Knox Catholic has that right and what happened with Tyler Baron coming from Ensworth to Knox Catholic once Knox Catholic went in the Private School division.  Not the same in the least bit

[BIGPURPLEMACHINE]

3 minutes ago, Swipes said:

The problem is like I stated before yes TSSAA wants money but do you really believe the  schools are going to vote for their district champs playing each other in week 11 instead of maybe the Quarter finals?  Not smart if you are a coach for your kids.

 

Once again if most are open zone whats the point of a multiplier?  The same Multiplier would county for Heritage, Williams Blount, Maryville, and Alcoa since they are in the same county but three different school systems.  It's not like you can live zoned for Heritage now and just go to Maryville (They are at capacity now) and why getting a house in the City is hard to come by).  Same advantage?  If you truly believe that then you have no clue the difference between public and Privates.  A coach from Maryville can't drive to Nashville and recruit a player the same way Knox Catholic has that right and what happened with Tyler Baron coming from Ensworth to Knox Catholic once Knox Catholic went in the Private School division.  Not the same in the least bit

Good points all around. It’s amazing how many people on these boards complain about open zoning and don’t understand it. 

[chs1984]

When I was in Tennessee in the late 80’s and early-mid 90’s, they didn’t have a bye week…… In Georgia, any out of district student counts X 3 for enrollment purposes. That is being revised a bit starting next year in that if the student was in your system prior to entering 6th grade they will not be subjected to the multiplier.