Cleveland High School Recruiting

[CorderosDad]

15 minutes ago, desselle said:

I will say we wrestled a couple times with HCWC and our shirts said check into cash. Not sure what or if he paid for anything. But his business was on the shirts but that was years ago. 

He might have donated the shirts for the kids to wear, but did he pay for your son to travel to that tournament is the point I was trying to make? I don't know maybe he did. All I know personally he has never helped me and my kids financially be able to go to any tournaments and we travel everywhere. 

 

Edited January 23 by WrestlingDad23

[cowcatcherII]

Great insightful posts from @cbg and @oceansize42 . Two of the best posters on this board. 

[Indian]

Question from an outsider, is there a direct connection between the Cleveland HS program and any particular youth programs?

Edited January 23 by Indian

[Rasslinking]

Just now, Indian said:

Question from an outsider, is there a direction connection between the Cleveland HS program and any particular youth programs?

Thats called a feeder program

[Indian]

1 minute ago, Rasslinking said:

Thats called a feeder program

So are being steered to the Cleveland HS program by anyone directly connected to the HS program or not. In all the pages devoted to this and also on the top team debate, that would seem to be the most important question. 

[Rasslinking]

I would hope so.

Thats why the best programs, are the best.

[Ummmno]

2 minutes ago, Indian said:

So are being steered to the Cleveland HS program by anyone directly connected to the HS program or not. In all the pages devoted to this and also on the top team debate, that would seem to be the most important question. 

Yes, by Allan Jones. He funds the Higher Calling Wrestling Club and the Cleveland High School team. Both. As well as pays the club coaches salary. 

[TotallynotLEO]

Re-read my original post.  I'm not throwing shade at Cleveland.  You can say I'm recruiting for you, I don't care.   I'm just starting observations. 

It's not any one thing that does it.  Over and over again we hear from Cleveland people that the kids or coaches just outwork everyone else as if that's the only thing required.  We also hear from the detractors that's it's the money,  as if that's the key. 

I'm saying it requires much more than that to achieve that level of sustainable success. But all are important.  Money helps,  a lot.  So does coaching.  So does buy in and dedication by the kids.  Support of parents, supporters and school admin. Training partners are huge.  It's not just one thing.  If you took away any one of those,  the program would see a drop.  Some areas would have more impact than others,  but the point stands.  

[FrecoFanatic]

15 minutes ago, TotallynotLEO said:

This is such a stupid take on anything I said.  

But if you want to use that,  by all means let's look at it.  It's a country of just over 3 million with wrestling as the most popular sport.  Gyms and training centers everywhere,  kids start young and are going against hammers from elementary age. It's also cultural to wrestle there.  I've spent a great deal of time in the middle east and got to meet people from cultures where wrestling is to them what basketball is to us, only bigger.  With that many numbers in that culture of course they're going to churn out great athletes. And they are only poor by your standards.  Within their country,  they're not.  

All this is moot anyways.  You can't debate the topic so you pull out a strawman argument to conflate talking points. Your response confirms my statement on entitlement.  

Conflating talking points? I think you are confused about what that means and what a straw-man argument actually is. Please tell me how I am conflating talking points? YOU are the one arguing that facilities and money make great wrestlers great. I am the one arguing that great coaches and great culture is what makes wrestlers great. What is your response to that? “Dagestan has great coaches and a great wrestling culture.” Lol. Where is the “straw-man?” You call me stupid or entitled one more time and I am going to take it personal brother. How bout you make your case without doing that. We can debate our positions without calling someone stupid or entitled (I am neither), and if you can’t, it means your case is probably not worth making. While I disagree with your position and logic, I am respectful enough to debate its merits without disrespecting you personally.

[Ummmno]

2 minutes ago, TotallynotLEO said:

Re-read my original post.  I'm not throwing shade at Cleveland.  You can say I'm recruiting for you, I don't care.   I'm just starting observations. 

It's not any one thing that does it.  Over and over again we hear from Cleveland people that the kids or coaches just outwork everyone else as if that's the only thing required.  We also hear from the detractors that's it's the money,  as if that's the key. 

I'm saying it requires much more than that to achieve that level of sustainable success. But all are important.  Money helps,  a lot.  So does coaching.  So does buy in and dedication by the kids.  Support of parents, supporters and school admin. Training partners are huge.  It's not just one thing.  If you took away any one of those,  the program would see a drop.  Some areas would have more impact than others,  but the point stands.  

It IS all of those things. The coaching staff puts in a ton of work and time and the kids have all bought into it too as well as the parents. 

 

The ENTIRE issue that they deny the money existing. They've done it for years and they're doing it again today. 

[FrecoFanatic]

Just now, Ummmno said:

It IS all of those things. The coaching staff puts in a ton of work and time and the kids have all bought into it too as well as the parents. 

 

The ENTIRE issue that they deny the money existing. They've done it for years and they're doing it again today. 

No, we are denying that the money Allen and others give the program has the impact you think it does. We are also refuting your argument that somehow we are recruiting our way to success. There are great wrestlers with great talent all over the state. What makes Cleveland so successful is that Joey and Josh find all those kids who are not great and not naturally talented, and make them great because they are the best coaches around. Period.

[Ummmno]

12 minutes ago, FrecoFanatic said:

No, we are denying that the money Allen and others give the program has the impact you think it does. We are also refuting your argument that somehow we are recruiting our way to success. There are great wrestlers with great talent all over the state. What makes Cleveland so successful is that Joey and Josh find all those kids who are not great and not naturally talented, and make them great because they are the best coaches around. Period.

So the fact a man worth 500 million dollars funding your entire youth-high school program doesnt put you a leg ahead of the rest of the state?

 

Point blank, yes or no...