Ridiculous Contact Tracing Strikes Again!

[sportsguy22]

21 hours ago, osunut2 said:

My side? Salem, I learned months ago that unless I just act like this is a no-nevermind, there's nothing I can say that will satisfy you. So I just stopped talking about it. I also have no control over the protocols that have been put in place, so I stopped complaining about them because no one important was/is listening.

I'd like to think that I fell somewhere in the middle. I wasn't an alarmist. I didn't advocate for shutting our lives down for months. The only thing that I've taken a clear, hard position on was/is mask usage. That was it. I also advocated for collecting more COVID-related data, for pretty obvious reasons. I'm not sure what was so unreasonable (or "foolish") about that. Do I feel "foolish" for taking that position? Absolutely not. In hindsight, I'll even double-down on those two things.

I'm sure if you go back through my activity history, you'll find that I never advocated to keep these kids at home and/or off the field. My overwhelming feeling was that if wearing masks (right, wrong, or indifferent) gave us the opportunity to play football, go to school, resume some kind of "normal", etc, then we should all be willing to do that simple act for these kids, and for each other.

I agree. You were very fair through the whole process! Obviously, I don’t want to get in another huge back and forth about all this craziness. One question for you: do you truly believe the mask mandates are working? Second or third wave now. Italy and Germany, who had strict lockdowns and mask mandates, are now dealing with a big second wave...way worse than here! 90% of those infected here are saying they wear masks always around people, yet here we sit. It’s my stance that it doesn’t work much at all and the virus is gonna virus! It’s a false sense of security which is why many let their guard down unfortunately. What’s your take?

[blazer1set]

26 minutes ago, sportsguy22 said:

I agree. You were very fair through the whole process! Obviously, I don’t want to get in another huge back and forth about all this craziness. One question for you: do you truly believe the mask mandates are working? Second or third wave now. Italy and Germany, who had strict lockdowns and mask mandates, are now dealing with a big second wave...way worse than here! 90% of those infected here are saying they wear masks always around people, yet here we sit. It’s my stance that it doesn’t work much at all and the virus is gonna virus! It’s a false sense of security which is why many let their guard down unfortunately. What’s your take?

I have been wondering the same thing and did some research, talked to some people in the medical community, etc.    A virus cell is about 100 nanometers in length, which is below the visible wave length of light, therefore cannot be seen with an optical microscope.   For those of us who do not deal with very tiny things day in and day out it is very difficult to get a grasp on just how small a virus cell is.    From what I could gather it does seem that masks will prevent/reduce small globules of water that we exhale and those little globules may contain virus cells, so in that sense a mask would work.   But even at that it is no guarantee.   One of my friends was sanding a tabletop the other day with an electric hand sander, decided to put on his virus mask to keep all the sawdust particles out of his nose.... yep, you guessed it, when he took it off the inside of the mask was brown with sawdust particles and so was his face.    There is a guy on here from Tennessee High, I forget the screen name, but he has a lot of knowledge of microbiology, hopefully he will see this and chime in.

[osunut2]

11 minutes ago, sportsguy22 said:

I agree. You were very fair through the whole process! Obviously, I don’t want to get in another huge back and forth about all this craziness. One question for you: do you truly believe the mask mandates are working? Second or third wave now. Italy and Germany, who had strict lockdowns and mask mandates, are now dealing with a big second wave...way worse than here! 90% of those infected here are saying they wear masks always around people, yet here we sit. It’s my stance that it doesn’t work much at all and the virus is gonna virus! It’s a false sense of security which is why many let their guard down unfortunately. What’s your take?

I think we can all agree that COVID isn't going anywhere, and we are going to have to deal with it even after we begin administering a vaccine that may or may not be effective. Heck, I'm not even convinced that most Americans will take it. So at some point, you are correct - We're going to have to manage this just like we do the flu (or any other known seasonal illness).

As far as masks go, if a substantial portion of the population doesn't wear a mask (even when it's mandated), I don't believe that it can be effective. I'm confident that's what we're witnessing. You and I have no way of knowing how each individual in the entire world is behaving, but here in Knoxville, I'm still amazed by the number of people I see at Kroger, Home Depot, etc who just refuse to wear a mask. And while some retailers have implemented mask mandates, they largely aren't enforcing them for a variety of reasons. And in some cases, individuals wear a mask, but they don't wear it properly.

I work for a VERY large organization (>5000 employees) with on-site medical. To combat the COVID issues we dealt with early on (including two fatalities), we adopted the CDC guidance regarding mask usage site-wide. It was strictly enforced (punishments included reprimands and even job termination). It took awhile, but we have effectively eliminated our on-site positivity rate. However, we still have a few reportable positives due to off-site exposures. According to medical interviews and contact tracing, there is a firm belief that this is due to people letting their guard down when off-site.

Mask usage is effective, and I think there is plenty of scientific data to back that up. But it doesn't work when a significant number of people just say f&*% it.

[osunut2]

4 minutes ago, blazer1set said:

I have been wondering the same thing and did some research, talked to some people in the medical community, etc.    A virus cell is about 100 nanometers in length, which is below the visible wave length of light, therefore cannot be seen with an optical microscope.   For those of us who do not deal with very tiny things day in and day out it is very difficult to get a grasp on just how small a virus cell is.    From what I could gather it does seem that masks will prevent/reduce small globules of water that we exhale and those little globules may contain virus cells, so in that sense a mask would work.   But even at that it is no guarantee.   One of my friends was sanding a tabletop the other day with an electric hand sander, decided to put on his virus mask to keep all the sawdust particles out of his nose.... yep, you guessed it, when he took it off the inside of the mask was brown with sawdust particles and so was his face.    There is a guy on here from Tennessee High, I forget the screen name, but he has a lot of knowledge of microbiology, hopefully he will see this and chime in.

It's been discussed here a lot before, but COVID virus "cells" do not just freely move from point A to point B. They require a motive force (e.g., body fluids, water, etc), which is why the face covering is effective when worn correctly.

[sportsguy22]

16 minutes ago, osunut2 said:

It's been discussed here a lot before, but COVID virus "cells" do not just freely move from point A to point B. They require a motive force (e.g., body fluids, water, etc), which is why the face covering is effective when worn correctly.

We can agree to disagree. My wife’s in the health industry and I get all the precautions and protocols there. Social distancing (which should be referred to as physical distancing) is the most important thing I think, when we don’t know who is around us for a period of time. I’m fine if people wear masks when around people in those situations. My biggest thing is mandating masks at all times just out and about while social distancing. If a business wants to mandate them, no problem. I abide by the rules. If the government overreaches and mandates all the time at all places, that’s craziness! Now, all the studies are out about people passing the virus because of using a mask too long without washing them and also because they don’t wear them properly. That’s what happens when you have widespread mandates. Leave it up to personal responsibility and common sense like we do with other viruses. We know now beyond a shadow of a doubt this is not near as deadly as all the experts projected. Therefore, we all should live and live responsibly but not bow down to fear and panic.

[osunut2]

14 minutes ago, sportsguy22 said:

We can agree to disagree. My wife’s in the health industry and I get all the precautions and protocols there. Social distancing (which should be referred to as physical distancing) is the most important thing I think, when we don’t know who is around us for a period of time. I’m fine if people wear masks when around people in those situations. My biggest thing is mandating masks at all times just out and about while social distancing. If a business wants to mandate them, no problem. I abide by the rules. If the government overreaches and mandates all the time at all places, that’s craziness! Now, all the studies are out about people passing the virus because of using a mask too long without washing them and also because they don’t wear them properly. That’s what happens when you have widespread mandates. Leave it up to personal responsibility and common sense like we do with other viruses. We know now beyond a shadow of a doubt this is not near as deadly as all the experts projected. Therefore, we all should live and live responsibly but not bow down to fear and panic.

100% agree on the social distancing. That is the most effective method, without question.

22, you've always had a very measured response when we've talked about this, which I appreciate. And if everyone out there were like us, I don't think we'd have anything to worry about. But not everyone is like us, sadly. I wish more people were willing to legitimately take personal responsibility and use common sense, but some folks just aren't interested, which ultimately screws the rest of us.

[WaCoJaCo]

Here's my take. Nobody knows. "Nobody" They say "believe the science" Well which science? Their all over the map and they change their mind almost daily. I hear a lot of "somebody that knows somebody said" this and that about how the virus is spread. Let's face it, nobody knows. If they did this thing would already be under control. Do mask work? Well thousands of people wearing mask are getting the virus anyway. Do mask slow the virus down. Maybe. So far through all of this I don't think I've seen anyone wearing a mask that I thought would stop a virus from getting inside your mouth or nose. If the virus is traveling through the air, the air is going to take the path of least resistance when you're breathing in. And that path will be partly around the sides of the mask. Like blazer said above, If sawdust can get inside one of these mask you know it's not going to stop the virus. Seems to me you would have to have a complete rubber seal around a mask for it to work. And what about the eyes? In hospitals their wearing plastic face shields. A month or so ago Dr. Fauci said it would be a good ideal to wear a face shield. But then that ideal sort of fizzled and we didn't hear much about it anymore. So maybe you can get the virus through the eyes or maybe not, who knows. I can tell you this, If you can get it through the eyes then mask are completely useless, no matter what kind of mask you use. Something I read a few weeks ago about viruses, A virus has to have a host to survive. If the host dies so does the virus. So the virus doesn't want to kill the host. The article said that over time the virus will learn and weaken itself enough to not kill or even make the host sick. The virus doesn't even want the host to know it's there. I'm not even going to try to understand how a virus can do that, mostly because I don't need to know. But I do think that makes sense. Right now, the number of people getting the virus is going up, the number of people dying is going down. I think most of the population will get the virus eventually. Hopefully it will keep getting weaker and weaker.

Edited October 28, 2020 by WaCoJaCo

[Red Rebels]

26 minutes ago, WaCoJaCo said:

Here's my take. Nobody knows. "Nobody" They say "believe the science" Well which science? Their all over the map and they change their mind almost daily. I hear a lot of "somebody that knows somebody said" this and that about how the virus is spread. Let's face it, nobody knows. If they did this thing would already be under control. Do mask work? Well thousands of people wearing mask are getting the virus anyway. Do mask slow the virus down. Maybe. So far through all of this I don't think I've seen anyone wearing a mask that I thought would stop a virus from getting inside your mouth or nose. If the virus is traveling through the air, the air is going to take the path of least resistance when you're breathing in. And that path will be partly around the sides of the mask. Like blazer said above, If sawdust can get inside one of these mask you know it's not going to stop the virus. Seems to me you would have to have a complete rubber seal around a mask for it to work. And what about the eyes? In hospitals their wearing plastic face shields. A month or so ago Dr. Fauci said it would be a good ideal to wear a face shield. But then that ideal sort of fizzled and we didn't hear much about it anymore. So maybe you can get the virus through the eyes or maybe not, who knows. I can tell you this, If you can get it through the eyes then mask are completely useless, no matter what kind of mask you use. Something I read a few weeks ago about viruses, A virus has to have a host to survive. If the host dies so does the virus. So the virus doesn't want to kill the host. The article said that over time the virus will learn and weaken itself enough to not kill or even make the host sick. The virus doesn't even want the host to know it's there. I'm not even going to try to understand how a virus can do that, mostly because I don't need to know. But I do think that makes sense. Right now, the number of people getting the virus is going up, the number of people dying is going down. I think most of the population will get the virus eventually. Hopefully it will keep getting weaker and weaker.

and weaker, and weaker, and weaker, and weaker, and weaker, and weaker...

[blazer1set]

22 hours ago, osunut2 said:

It's been discussed here a lot before, but COVID virus "cells" do not just freely move from point A to point B. They require a motive force (e.g., body fluids, water, etc), which is why the face covering is effective when worn correctly.

When wearing a mask why do my glasses fog up when I exhale?

[osunut2]

2 hours ago, blazer1set said:

When wearing a mask why do my glasses fog up when I exhale?

Effective doesn't mean that it can completely eliminate risk. A condom isn't 100% effective, but it certainly helps 

Edited October 29, 2020 by osunut2

[blazer1set]

18 minutes ago, osunut2 said:

Effective doesn't mean that it can completely eliminate risk. A condom isn't 100% effective, but it certainly helps 

Sounds like our masks should have some type of conformable rubber gasket that molds to your face to allow zero air/particles in/out.     Maybe they make such masks but I have never seen anyone wearing one.    BTW, I always wear a mask around people who believe they work, i.e., at church, Home Depot, grocery store, etc.      Just to try and be considerate of other's feelings, although I am not convinced they make much difference.     Good metaphor about the condominium though!

[orngnblk]

Just now, blazer1set said:

Sounds like our masks should have some type of conformable rubber gasket that molds to your face to allow zero air/particles in/out.     Maybe they make such masks but I have never seen anyone wearing one.    BTW, I always wear a mask around people who believe they work, i.e., at church, Home Depot, grocery store, etc.      Just to try and be considerate of other's feelings, although I am not convinced they make much difference.     Good metaphor about the condominium though!

I actually saw one in walmart one day.A dude was wearing an auto paint respirator like I wear when I paint cars!IN WALMART!!Had 9 mil black rubber gloves on also and tape around his sleeves and Britches cuffs.IF YOUR THAT SCARED STAY HOME!!!LOL.